The narrative promoted by pro-gay activists is that sexual orientation is fixed, immutable, and that efforts to change it are both futile and harmful. In this interview, Hudson Byblow offers a deeply personal and thoughtful counterpoint to that claim. He describes how emotional wounds, unmet childhood needs, and confusion about belonging contributed to the development of his same-sex desires. His testimony reveals that identity is more than a label and that healing is possible through love, truth, and authentic relationships.
Byblow speaks candidly about how chastity and Catholic teaching did not restrict his life but instead opened a pathway to peace and interior freedom. He unpacks the ways in which early experiences of isolation and a longing for male friendship became entangled with sexual attraction. Rather than feeling condemned by the Church, he was embraced by faithful Catholics who walked with him patiently, helping him to see his dignity not as something he created, but as something he received from God.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse provides thoughtful questions and pastoral insight that help frame Hudson’s story within the broader struggle of many who experience same-sex attraction. The discussion challenges prevailing cultural assumptions while offering encouragement for anyone seeking hope, healing, and holiness. It’s a conversation that testifies to the transforming power of truth told in love.
Watch Part 1 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o11j1YzcjA
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Watch the full episode on censorship-free Rumble or Locals:
Rumble: https://rumble.com/v6t6m2n-hudson-byblows-story-will-deepen-your-faith-a-catholic-witness-of-healing-a.html
Locals: https://theruthinstitute.locals.com/post/6917798/hudson-byblows-story-will-deepen-your-faith-a-catholic-witness-of-healing-hope
Hudson Byblow Interviews:
Trauma-Informed Education & Evangelization | Hudson Byblow on The Dr J Show ep. 152
https://youtu.be/bsq4c7D3tD8
Transcript
(Please note the transcript is auto-generated and likely contains errors)
Interview Transcript: Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse & Hudson Byblow – Part 2
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:40:06
Speaker 1
And those doors are not automatically closed at all, but they’re open for anybody who authentically pursues the virtue of chastity. I mean, eventually pursues a growth in the fullness of virtue as they are understood by the church, because that equates two or more points of holiness, right and personal holiness, and personal surrender to Jesus Christ. What that does is it brings about the transformation of heart and ultimate desire through which, as anybody knows, attachments to other things that in the world drip, drip away and you end up with with an understanding of the reality that God has vocations written for us, potential vocations written for us from the beginning, and a mere experience or things
00:00:40:06 – 00:01:05:24
Speaker 1
that might have happened in our past. They don’t mean that those vocations are off the table. It’s just something we have to enter into that restorative journey towards knowing the fullness of virtue. So I’m really excited about that.
00:01:05:27 – 00:01:27:28
Speaker 2
Right, right. So. So if we may, let’s go back a little bit to a bit more detail, perhaps in your personal story. Obviously you don’t believe people are born gay. But you probably have some theory, tacit or implicit or explicit theory about the origins of persistent same sex attraction. Based on your personal story and other people that you’ve encountered.
00:01:28:00 – 00:01:34:00
Speaker 2
What’s your thought process about why some people develop persistent same sex attraction and others do not?
00:01:34:02 – 00:01:59:04
Speaker 1
Sure. So again, after after 12 years of talking about this, which means 12 years of people coming to me after my testimonies, telling me their experiences, it’s not just about me. 12 years of listening to people share their experiences points to one thing that I would say is super common, and that’s a genuine thirst for relational intimacy.
00:01:59:06 – 00:02:42:01
Speaker 1
Okay. That there’s, and for men, because I can’t I haven’t been a woman before, so I know that males and females are different. So I’m going to be speaking through the lens of a male, obviously. But this, this, relational thirst to belong among the wolfpack, to feel as an equal among men. And so, for as long as, a man feels like he’s left behind or that the other peers are kind of pedestal lies, that longing in the heart to to feel like one of them or to, to get there places them in that position of always looking in longing as opposed to at which causes that, let’s say it
00:02:42:01 – 00:03:03:28
Speaker 1
impairs their ability to relate healthily with the men that, that they want to be like, because they, they haven’t learned to relate this way to them. And that’s, that’s a really hot topic because guys, guys are guys relate to guys differently than girls relate to girls. Right. And so, I can imagine people are wondering, well, what do you mean?
00:03:03:28 – 00:03:24:05
Speaker 1
But it’s like, a man has to choose to level up. He might not be told this, but he has to choose to learn to say, if I want to be around, let’s talk business, right? If I want to be, I want to get good in business. I’m going to hang around business leaders. Right. Because I’m going to learn how to navigate the world of business.
00:03:24:07 – 00:03:44:20
Speaker 1
Okay. Everybody knows that there’s probably millions of hours of YouTube videos on this stuff, but but people should be talking about if I want to grow as a man in terms of what it looks like to be a virtuous man, how to how to manifest these virtues, how to how to live a virtuous life, and what that looks like and what surrender to Christ looks like.
00:03:44:21 – 00:04:04:04
Speaker 1
I need to find other men who are also doing that. Maybe men that are already down the road and and living successful family lives so that I can see what these people are actually doing it. They’ve done it. How can I grow like them? But again, some people don’t want to do that because it shines a light on their perceived deficiencies.
00:04:04:06 – 00:04:08:25
Speaker 1
And that’s really difficult for some people to get over, even if they’re really up in age.
00:04:09:00 – 00:04:33:14
Speaker 2
So and, you know, from what I’ve, learned from talking to people, and I have heard what you just said, I’ve heard from virtually every man that I’ve talked to, you know, in this area. I wanted to fit in with the guys. I didn’t know how to fit in with the guys. And that desire to be one of the guys became distorted into a sexualized desire.
00:04:33:16 – 00:04:57:08
Speaker 2
It seems to me that the idea that you were born gay short circuits that process. It tells you that that process isn’t even necessary. Right? That that that’s not even a possible thing for you. And I think that’s where the despair comes in that people feel like that longing doesn’t really go away just because it gets shifted or distorted into some other arena.
00:04:57:16 – 00:05:15:02
Speaker 2
It doesn’t it doesn’t go away. And so therefore they’re not happy. What what do you think about that? And I’m speaking as a woman, by the way. I’ve been a woman my whole life and have no aspiration to be a guy. So I’m just kind of on the outside looking in here. But but, But do you think that’s right?
00:05:15:05 – 00:05:39:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Basically, the relational longings don’t go away no matter how you categorize things in your head. And so that’s why the so like you say, the answer, a healthy response to, all things lgtbq, at least in the realm of male space because I, I mean, and maybe to some degree in the female space, I, I again, I’m a guy, right.
00:05:39:06 – 00:05:44:11
Speaker 2
Right, right. We forgive you. We feel you for me not being a girl. Okay. It’s fine.
00:05:44:14 – 00:06:23:20
Speaker 1
Thank you. Thank you. The part of the part of the healthy response is to actually, instead of just zeroing in on lgtbq, everything is to cut that and look towards what holy friendship actually looks like. So the response to, I think would be a great service if the response to all things LGBTQ in the Catholic Church really pointed everybody to the role and importance of, of of healthy holy friendship, which of course, is contingent on openness to grow in the fullness of virtue, which, of course, also points us to serve outward instead of being focused inwardly.
00:06:23:23 – 00:06:43:10
Speaker 1
And of course, our church teaches that, like, for example, liturgy shapes culture. So spend your time engaging with good people who are trying to shape culture through service to the church. First of all, to at least get a base or other good, healthy groups, like maybe like I’m on a guy’s hockey team and stuff like that. And that’s all great.
00:06:43:10 – 00:06:52:23
Speaker 1
You don’t get that time in to grow in real relationship with people. And, in a way that prioritizes service of the Lord. As best as you understand how.
00:06:52:25 – 00:07:02:23
Speaker 2
I think we should mention at this point, at this point, we should mention Hudson is Canadian. He mentioned hockey. Okay. That’s, low, right? That’s part of your birthright as a Canadian man.
00:07:02:25 – 00:07:05:26
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah. But, you know.
00:07:05:26 – 00:07:25:28
Speaker 2
This is in one way or another, I’ve heard this again repeatedly that that, that one of the most helpful things that the men report to me is friendships with other men, not friendships that are therapeutic or focused on, oh, let’s heal your same sex attraction. Just know we’re doing guys stuff. We want you to be part of doing good stuff with us.
00:07:26:00 – 00:07:31:04
Speaker 2
You know, whatever, whatever guy stuff happens to look like in a in a particular context.
00:07:31:07 – 00:07:51:25
Speaker 1
Yeah. And and if those friendships are to some degree self-medicating, then that’s a sign that that guy needs to do a lot of work. And I know that that’s going to hit for some people because, there are some people and I, I’ve sat down with people over coffee, and I’ve listened to them as they’ve explained the plight of their same sex journey.
00:07:51:27 – 00:08:18:12
Speaker 1
And you have you have sometimes you have the state of, of men befriending other men. Emotional dysregulation is all over the place in this stuff. And there is it’s almost treated like, when the when the friendship is depart, it’s like a, it’s like a romantic breakup and it’s highly emotionally invested. And it’s like, why? What gives you the idea that this is good for you?
00:08:18:16 – 00:08:39:13
Speaker 1
You know, is this person helping you become a better man or are they helping you self-medicate? And I’ll I asked the person this over coffee once. We had a long term like, you know, relationship where I could ask this. And he mentioned to me that it was on this side of self-medicating. And I’m like, but he was in a cycle like this.
00:08:39:21 – 00:08:59:01
Speaker 1
And so some people do get stuck where they idea they want friendship, they long for friendship, but for whatever reason, well, in this case, again, there’s a there’s a fear involved of being around men who are, more advanced down the road of manhood, so to speak, because that shines a light on the on the sense of inadequacy.
00:08:59:01 – 00:09:18:07
Speaker 1
And that’s terrifying. It is a terrifying thing to face for men. And I think even I, I have to face that myself maybe was ten years ago. And it was like I was like, do I want to stay here or not? And the answer was no. Heck no. So I had to take that leap of faith and put myself out there and thank God, like by the by sort of worth God.
00:09:18:10 – 00:09:30:20
Speaker 2
So, so let me ask you though, this term self-medicating. I’m not quite sure what you mean by that. Would you spell that out a little bit more, maybe use some other words? Because I’m not I’m not I’m quite certain I’m not following exactly what you’re saying. What do you mean?
00:09:30:23 – 00:09:40:10
Speaker 1
Sure. Right. I’m like, I’m not a doctor or anything like that, but it’s just the idea of, like, this friendship is going to make my anxieties be quelled, right? Oh, this this.
00:09:40:12 – 00:09:43:16
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Oh, I think I see what you mean. Now.
00:09:43:19 – 00:10:05:16
Speaker 1
This is super important because it actually, like, I remember I had lots of pursuits with females and in this, through this lens where I was, you know, my heart was in a terrible place. But as soon as I would, you know, engage with the female, the anxiety and the fears of life would quell. And that actually points to not sexual romantic attractions, per se.
00:10:05:17 – 00:10:35:10
Speaker 1
But the, was it the the, the sympathetic nervous system like to pursue relationships that had like a subconscious, purpose of, like, helping someone calm down or to feel safe? That’s the sympathetic nervous system at work, person succumbing to the drives of the sympathetic nervous system. So the conversation about sexuality and relationships, it’s not just about who you like or who who’s attracted.
00:10:35:10 – 00:11:02:18
Speaker 1
It’s much more than that. And I wonder how many relationships, especially, I don’t know, it feels like this friend, the world that’s struggling with friendless right now. I wonder how many relationships are actually responses to people’s deep need to quell fear and anxiety, which is which is obviously, you know, a, those relationships are used to quell the, the, the, the sparks of this sympathetic nervous system, same sex and opposite sex relationship.
00:11:02:18 – 00:11:03:12
Speaker 2
Right, right.
00:11:03:19 – 00:11:05:18
Speaker 1
And and people got to talk about this.
00:11:05:21 – 00:11:24:19
Speaker 2
So like I said, I’ve been married to the same man for 40 years. And I can tell you there are plenty of times when he quells my anxiety. Okay. And and I think in any long standing relationship, there are going to be moments when you do that. Is it safe to say that what you’re saying. You’re not saying that that’s in itself a bad thing.
00:11:24:21 – 00:11:43:15
Speaker 2
You’re saying something about the primary focus of the relationship. If the full focus of the relationship is I’m here in order to make you feel better. There’s something suspect about that. And is that is that where you’re going with this?
00:11:43:18 – 00:12:01:25
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Going exactly there. And maybe, maybe to even further clarify if, like, if the proportion I mean, it’s almost subconscious to right the sympathetic nervous system operation. So basically like I think it would be valuable for a person to ask, but they wouldn’t work. The person would be in survival mode in their head to some degree. That wouldn’t work.
00:12:02:02 – 00:12:21:09
Speaker 1
It would take like healthy minded people from the outside to recognize, hey, this relationship is is largely about two lost people who are trying to find that their crutches for each other, or at least one person, is a crutch for the other because of, a fear and anxiety. And yes, of course, relationships, you said, can help bring those things down.
00:12:21:12 – 00:12:26:17
Speaker 1
But where is that prioritized in the whole scheme of that relationship?
00:12:26:19 – 00:12:27:22
Speaker 2
I get yeah, yeah.
00:12:27:26 – 00:12:31:12
Speaker 1
Where is it in relation to growing and virtue with somebody.
00:12:31:15 – 00:12:56:14
Speaker 2
Right. Do you know, some time ago I interviewed a lady named, Christy Jessie, who lived a lesbian lifestyle for a long time. And we had a very interesting conversation about how two women relationship becomes so enmeshed and intertwined and that kind of thing. And she compared that now to her relationship with her husband, which he performs some of the same functions.
00:12:56:14 – 00:13:15:13
Speaker 2
But it’s it’s it’s different, you know, I mean, there’s still anxiety that has to be managed. But the way that that’s happening in the opposite sex relationship is, is different in kind. It’s not just different in degree, but different in kind is what she noticed and what she reported. So this is, this is obviously we’re putting this out here.
00:13:15:13 – 00:13:36:17
Speaker 2
Look, he’s not a doctor. I’m a doctor. But I’m the wrong kind of doctor here, okay, people, we’re not giving you medical advice or. And we’re not giving you therapeutic advice. We’re giving you some pointers about what you should be looking for, and things for you to keep track of that. Any person can do for themselves. You don’t need a shrink to, you know, to help you work through all of this stuff.
00:13:36:22 – 00:13:58:21
Speaker 2
You might need therapeutic intervention, but a lot of this you can do yourself. But that brings me that does bring it to a question that I’m interested in. Hudson, in your journey from, same sex attraction. I forget how you put it. Trans ideology. You know, you you had thoughts of being a woman and these type of things in, in your whole process.
00:13:58:21 – 00:14:09:17
Speaker 2
Did you ever, get involved in any type of therapy? Did you ever have a counselor or psychiatrist or anything like that? Was that ever part of your story?
00:14:09:19 – 00:14:33:23
Speaker 1
Thanks for asking. The answer. It actually is no. Okay. What I had, like, again, the very first people that I met when I was kind of coming back to church were was a group of guys probably like, you know, like my dad’s age kind of stuff, who just radiated a love for Christ. And I was in a situation where I was able to have, let’s say, ongoing mentorship with all of them because it was a small town, right?
00:14:33:25 – 00:15:00:27
Speaker 1
Ongoing mentorship with them for about about a year. Right. And so being able to spend time with these prayerful, faithful Catholics really was a good kickstart. But throughout the time, ever since then, it’s been lots of, lots of good mentorship, lots of good conversations. I guess I probably had the wisdom of many counselors, but it’s not that I ever went to counseling, so I’m not going to like I for sure.
00:15:00:27 – 00:15:13:21
Speaker 1
I know that many, many counselor, priests and counselor, you know, other people have talked to over the past 12 years and have shaped who I am today. I’ve been really blessed to experience that through that.
00:15:13:23 – 00:15:30:09
Speaker 2
But some people do go for therapy. In the early go for counseling to a religious leader or things like that. And so I’m always interested in those experiences. But it sounds like that wasn’t particularly part of your journey. But what you but what you just said brings me to another question that I want you to really elaborate on.
00:15:30:11 – 00:15:50:14
Speaker 2
Because you hinted at it, but I want to say it explicitly, what were some of the things that people in your life did that were particularly helpful to you? And what were some of the things people did that were particularly not helpful to you? You know, just to to just in your own words, spell that out for people to give them something to think about.
00:15:50:16 – 00:16:19:21
Speaker 1
Sure. I think the most helpful thing that I remember people doing was, always walking with me towards a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. I know that sounds pretty broad, but that was like reintroducing me to prayer and the rosary and helping me understand the mass, the value of the mass, like what is really going on and helping because these things really helped me get to the point of understanding God’s deep, infinite love for me.
00:16:19:23 – 00:16:40:24
Speaker 1
Right? I didn’t have that in my heart for a long time. Like, how could God love someone like me and look at the things I’ve done, you know, all that kind of stuff. So there was people, they received me where I was, and initially, just for the record, the first people didn’t know, like my story. Right?
00:16:40:24 – 00:16:59:23
Speaker 1
But later on, as people learned my story, I would say I it was bursting from within me. I’m like, how do I, you know, what do I do with this? Right? Especially after meeting these amazing people, they always receive me. But the instead of just affirming me and saying, oh, this is you know, that that’s who you are to.
00:16:59:26 – 00:17:22:16
Speaker 1
They kept encouraging me to, to walk deeper into to the Lord Jesus Christ. And because of that and being involved in, like I said, being involved in like the liturgy in your church community, I was able to meet very good men who helped mentor me. Okay. So I was probably probably the the best thing that ever could have happened to me.
00:17:22:18 – 00:17:47:19
Speaker 1
And so, you know, like 15 years of of growing with, with good men who can teach me the ways of, of men, which I in my early story, I felt there was a chasm between me and the boys. Right. So that was that was what I needed. What what wasn’t good for me? You know, after my adult conversion, I became locked on the love of Jesus Christ.
00:17:47:19 – 00:18:06:15
Speaker 1
Pretty good. And so I don’t really think there is much that was not good for me, because I knew that if people wanted things that were not in line with that, I knew I could just kind of ignore that. And being like, you know, I feel like you’re trying to trap me in this mindset of like being gay.
00:18:06:17 – 00:18:27:17
Speaker 1
I’m like, I’m so done with that. Like I had I felt like I’ve been lied to a lot because of pursuing fulfillment in the secular hookup culture and in the in the opposite sex hookup culture. And it was completely unfulfilling. And I bought that lie. And then the last thing I was ever going to do once I discovered the lie of the LGBTQ ideology, I was never going to accept that lie.
00:18:27:17 – 00:19:01:14
Speaker 1
So when people would try to reimpose those lies onto me and say, well, this is who you are, I was like, take a hike. You know, I just didn’t have ruined my mind for them anymore. I would I would tell my whole story, my whole testimony about how they came to know the Lord Jesus. Like, I mean, God came to me through the Eucharist one time like, miraculous things and showed he showed me that I’m his, his beloved, you know, and then at the end and and that there’s hope and that I don’t need to stay in this mindset because, an unpleasant experience is different than how I choose to see myself and
00:19:01:14 – 00:19:22:26
Speaker 1
how I choose to grow as a person. Because, you know, it’s not about who we are, it’s about who we become as people. And I, I share this story about how the Lord basically gave me a new lease on life to, like, pursue the fulfillment of holy vocation. And at the end of it, this girl, she’s like, well, maybe you’re maybe you’re just by ethic.
00:19:22:28 – 00:19:52:15
Speaker 1
Like, she couldn’t she couldn’t wrap your mind around her imagination had not been formed to the extent to consider life outside of LGBT. Q Iowa, whatever, you know what I mean? And that’s also the danger of this whole thing, as we know. You know, the whole world is being formed to see people using those identity labels, including children like you take a five year old who learns to see themselves as asexual and a romantic because they haven’t even awakened to their sexuality yet, and they just are trained to see themselves through that lens.
00:19:52:17 – 00:20:17:06
Speaker 1
Well, this is coming from an adult who I knew for like ten years, and she was trained to see people through that lens. She couldn’t break past this idea that this is who you are. You know, and I just so it’s the only negative effect I had on me was just kind of being frustrated momentarily and then being like, man, I got to do something about this so that people can see a bigger picture.
00:20:17:06 – 00:20:28:25
Speaker 1
Then this is who you are for your whole life. And therefore you know that at best you could have a this is my favorite. A mixed orientation marriage. Oh, I hate that term.
00:20:28:27 – 00:20:52:10
Speaker 2
So this woman, she couldn’t she couldn’t see that you were trying to step out of a whole paradigm of, are you an L or you a G? Are you a B, or are you straight or something? You know, and so that was like, shocking to you. But but there’s something about that whole way of viewing the world that, that, that kind of locks people in.
00:20:52:12 – 00:21:01:01
Speaker 2
And, are there other particular things that concern you or think problems you’ve seen arise from that, that you’d like to comment on?
00:21:01:03 – 00:21:22:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. One of the one of the things that I see downstream from the whole, being the LGBTQi+ Hoya mindset is the idea is like, well, you’re not technically excluded from opposite sex marriage, but you could marry some of the opposite sex, but that would be a mixed orientation marriage. And what I hear, yeah, mixed orientation not even mean.
00:21:23:01 – 00:21:23:26
Speaker 1
Well, I mean.
00:21:23:28 – 00:21:25:01
Speaker 2
What does that even mean?
00:21:25:01 – 00:21:48:26
Speaker 1
What? Okay. To the people speaking that way, it means that you have someone who is lesbian and is gay and they get married together as a gay Catholic and a lesbian Catholic, and that’s a mixed orientation language, marriage. But of course, that’s predicated on the, the twisting of the word orientation. This is a I it’s very important to bring this up.
00:21:49:00 – 00:22:05:05
Speaker 1
The catechism, our faith teaches about what God has authored into nature. Right? God is, and nature and natural is not what feels nature natural. Because, of course, there’s a breastfeeding woman who didn’t feel natural. And so she thought it wasn’t part of nature. It wasn’t natural to her to breastfeed. This was on CNN a couple of years ago.
00:22:05:07 – 00:22:35:25
Speaker 1
But they they’ve taken orientation to mean, up, up to be about the person’s, desires or their attractions rather than God’s authorship into reality. So the human species is heterosexual, oriented by nature, regardless if attractions. So the orientation, properly understood, has to do with God’s authorship of humanity. Like an amoeba is asexual. People are not asexual, you know.
00:22:35:28 – 00:22:39:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, I get I get what you’re saying. I guess you’re saying. Yeah, okay, okay.
00:22:39:21 – 00:23:05:01
Speaker 1
But but when you see again talking about red flags, when you see people speaking of mixed orientation marriage, you can I bet you 50 bucks you can guarantee that that person believes that being LGBTQ is who someone is, right? And that’s that’s the best that their life’s going to be. And maybe they could do this on top. If God drowns in some kind of special grace.
00:23:05:03 – 00:23:05:21
Speaker 2
Right?
00:23:05:22 – 00:23:06:20
Speaker 1
There’s a.
00:23:06:22 – 00:23:17:07
Speaker 2
Mixed race, but surely a mixed orientation marriage could be a gay man with a straight woman, or a gay woman with a straight man or something like that. Or, it could be any of those.
00:23:17:07 – 00:23:20:12
Speaker 1
Lesbian woman and a gay guy. So.
00:23:20:19 – 00:23:45:15
Speaker 2
Right, right. But, you know, Hudson, all your conversation about orientation brings two things to mind. Number one, the Catholic Church does not use the term sexual orientation in its official documents. So the catechism, if you go to this section of the Catechism, you will not find that word. You will find homosexual tendencies. But you will not find you will not find sexual orientation as if it’s a thing.
00:23:45:15 – 00:24:11:19
Speaker 2
So so there’s that. And then I forgot what the other thing was. Oh, I know the other thing. I was going to say that it’s become clear to me that the people actually scientifically study, quote unquote, sexual orientation. It does not have a, a rigorous academic meaning, a rigorous scientific meaning. They’ve got a battery of questions that they ask people that kind of get at it.
00:24:11:21 – 00:24:28:06
Speaker 2
But those, quote, the answers to those questions do not overlap perfectly. And so the more thoughtful people who are doing this work are, you know, kind of going, well, maybe this is maybe this term sexual orientation is a little too strong because you got people who have the desires but don’t do the behaviors, who don’t pin the label on themselves.
00:24:28:13 – 00:24:51:09
Speaker 2
You got people who used to do it who don’t do it the same way. You know, maybe this isn’t quite right. This whole sexual orientation concept, you know, and I myself am sympathetic with that view that it’s not it’s not helpful, you know, to talk about sexual orientation as if it were a thing. It isn’t a thing the way having blue eyes is a thing.
00:24:51:11 – 00:25:11:29
Speaker 2
You know, which is why the whole genetic thing is doomed, is undermined. But I think what where you’re going with this, what I gather you’re trying to say is that when people embrace this too rigidly about themselves, it places unnecessary limits on their growth and unnecessary limits on who they can be and who they can associate with and, and what’s in their comfort zone.
00:25:11:29 – 00:25:17:27
Speaker 2
And, and all those kind of things. Is that is that safe to say? Am I reading you correctly here, Hudson?
00:25:17:29 – 00:26:00:21
Speaker 1
Yes. I think that I would sum it up by saying it shapes people’s expectations of of not only who they are and, but also of, like, what their life could look like and what the journey towards fulfillment could look like. Okay. And so, yeah, and like the people that, like I said, that people are coming to me and they, they encounter there’s something more beautiful thing they’re realizing that their perspective of the maximum fulfillment that they could ever have in life excluded the idea of a holy vocation, because they had their expectations were formed by that idea that this is who you are and who you forever will be.
00:26:00:23 – 00:26:27:18
Speaker 1
Right? And off of the radar was was the fact that every decision we make, right, I mean, impacts, how we develop relationally with people and of course, how we develop relationally with people impacts how we trust people and how we trust people impacts who we get close with and who we get close with impacts how who we become intimate with and who we become intimately close with in non-sexual magic ways, can impact who we become attracted to in the next level way.
00:26:27:21 – 00:26:49:06
Speaker 1
And so there’s just some kind of finality about it that, when, you know, when someone takes on that this is who I am thing, and this is my orientation, and I don’t know if if people are relieved by having that kind of finality. Or maybe it’s it’s less hard to navigate because you’re not responsible for your how your life turns out in that mindset.
00:26:49:08 – 00:27:11:08
Speaker 1
I mean, that’s a red flag right there. It’s like we need to take responsibility for how our lives with regard to how our lives turn out. And, you know, it calls to mind, it calls to mind a quote from that I got face to face from an LGBTQ activist who said, to me after after he finished brainwashing a whole roomful of teachers at a conference.
00:27:11:10 – 00:27:38:18
Speaker 1
He said environment plays a factor in the development of our interactions. And this is the kind of this is a guy I think I might have mentioned to you before, he’s he’s he’s partially behind the, the, the conversion therapy laws in Canada and the changing of like our constitution with regards to gender and identity. And even he said this, you know, it’s the idea of it simply just being with that finality in terms of, like with, with our life experiences.
00:27:38:18 – 00:27:48:16
Speaker 1
And we’re exposed to and how we’ve been betrayed or not or loved having to do with who we might want to be around. It makes no sense.
00:27:48:18 – 00:28:09:20
Speaker 2
Right, right, right. You know, my friend Elizabeth, one whom I’ve interviewed on the show a couple of times, and who’s not Catholic, but she’s in fact, her background is Presbyterian, but I think she’s some kind of Pentecostal. Now. I’m not completely sure. But anyway, she used this phrase. She said, born gay is the great redemptive gay narrative, right?
00:28:09:20 – 00:28:37:01
Speaker 2
So it’s their story about how their being saved, you know, is it okay, I’m gay. That’s I’m born gay. That’s it. That’s the that’s the end of it. It forestalled all kinds of questions and stuff like that. And curiosity about why you are who you are and where you might where you might else go. And my friend Andrew Rodriguez, who’s a therapist, he also is way opposed to the sexual orientation concept.
00:28:37:01 – 00:29:02:11
Speaker 2
You know, it’s like we got to get past this concept. He uses the concept of, arousal templates, right? That an arousal template, I think, is what people have in mind when they say you have this fixed gay thing going on, you know, but if you really stop and think about an arousal template, nobody’s born with that. You know, a baby doesn’t have doesn’t, hasn’t already figured out who they’re going to be sexually aroused by.
00:29:02:11 – 00:29:38:01
Speaker 2
It’s not even a concept. It’s obviously developmental. It’s obviously influenced by who you encounter, who who’s betrays you and you know, all those kind of things that you mentioned. So I think this is this is really interesting what you’re telling us about that. And I’d like to ask you if you could just briefly give some word of encourage to family members of, of of loved ones who are, who have embraced some kind of LGBT identity and in many cases, their family members are suffering greatly over this and deeply concerned.
00:29:38:01 – 00:29:55:22
Speaker 2
And, you know, want to know what they can do to help, and want to be sustained in their in their journey of waiting or patiently watching what their, what their loved one is doing. What do you have to say to the family members of people who have this LGBT mindset?
00:29:55:25 – 00:30:19:17
Speaker 1
Sure. I think the first thing, of course, is to remember your absolutely not alone. That is especially now with like the massive spike in, kids self-identifying as transgender like. And I mean, there’s, there’s there’s so many people who are navigating this, you know, at arms length through loved ones. You’re not alone. Never stop praying.
00:30:19:19 – 00:30:43:18
Speaker 1
And remember, ultimately that the the victory is in the destination, in the next life. And your prayers can help someone get to heaven. And your prayers can bring someone’s about someone’s conversion. And maybe it’s not the conversion of your brother or your son or your sister or whatever like that. It could be someone else’s halfway around the world, and you just have to entrust that to the Lord.
00:30:43:20 – 00:31:10:16
Speaker 1
And I heard another thing that was helpful to me is that someone’s like, well, where is God when I’m suffering? And someone said, well, he’s he’s with you, crucify. He’s you’re you’re taking a portion of his you’re sharing and some to some degree in his crucifixion in your way right now at some because some family members are getting persecuted, not just suffering silently while they watch and wait, but they’re actively being persecuted.
00:31:10:16 – 00:31:44:11
Speaker 1
And so, again, outside of the Catholic understanding of suffering, I don’t know how a person could, navigate this as a loved one, but because our faith teaches that suffering can be offered to the Lord as a penitential offering for the salvation of souls, it gives us a much more beautiful reason to endure it and to, of course, resist and bring things up and in ways that we can and to not, cave to things like manipulative tactics or anything like that.
00:31:44:13 – 00:32:05:05
Speaker 1
But really just, again, staying locked on the Lord and trying to remember that there really shouldn’t be anything to steal our peace. Yes, we can have righteous anger because of the lies. Right. But we have to be motivated to return to virtue. And which, of course, will draw us to enter that type of prayer and all that kind of stuff.
00:32:05:08 – 00:32:38:17
Speaker 1
There’s there’s one family I want to bring up. So, I know their daughter has been, swept up in this and has had the double mastectomy and is even like a poster child for a particular, effort amongst the LGBTQ in theological, ideology. Yeah. At advocates. And I see them sometimes and I’m like, how do you and I’ve talked with them for many years, but how do you have so much peace in your heart despite what’s happening to your girl?
00:32:38:19 – 00:32:58:25
Speaker 1
And the mother says to me, you know, we just surrender our baby girl to Jesus every day. And that’s the only way for the parents to return the peace. And they do a wholehearted surrender. And they pray, and they know that, that the only way, the only the best thing they can do at this point in time is exactly that, the continuous surrender.
00:32:58:28 – 00:33:19:07
Speaker 1
And I’m sure the devil hates it because it’s brought them to peace. So instead of swirling around in darkness and anger and confusion about what do I do? What do I do? I saw I’ve seen a successful example, and I always bring this, this couple up, because they radiate such a beautiful peace amidst the tragedy.
00:33:19:09 – 00:33:40:21
Speaker 2
And the thing is that while they’re at peace, it means they’re more receptive to opportunities for action. Should such an opportunity present itself. Whereas if you’re hysterical, yeah, you know, the perfect opportunity could just walk right by you and you. You won’t even see it because you’re so wrapped up in yourself. So that’s a very beautiful example that you’ve offered.
00:33:40:21 – 00:34:03:09
Speaker 2
And, I appreciate it. Let these people know that I appreciate them very much and that their stories hopefully going to help a lot of other people, because you’ve shared it here with us on the show. Hudson, give, give people the, the, the web address for something more beautiful and tell people who should go there and and what will they find when they go there.
00:34:03:11 – 00:34:43:18
Speaker 1
Sure. So the web address for something more beautiful, mysteries or something more beautiful effort is, I think it is just SMB 33.com. That not intuitive at all? Of course. Ask them something more beautiful. Miniatures SMB m 33 the Age of jesus.com and what people will find there or who should go there. First of all, I think, I think I mean, I’m biased, but I think every faithful Catholic should check it out so that their imaginations can be, you know, formed and shaped and seeing, you know, so they can be exposed to this idea that, well, we can frame things this way.
00:34:43:18 – 00:35:05:13
Speaker 1
People are not automatically excluded. When I see people going to other sites that, claim that the best the person can do is only like a celibate vocation to religious life, that I know something’s missing. I can go to this site and see. Wow, these are real joyful testimonies. These are real people. This is a real reality and a potentiality for so many more people.
00:35:05:15 – 00:35:25:22
Speaker 1
And, and, and hopefully people will share about this site, peer to peer. I don’t anticipate this site. I mean, I would love it if it was shared from the top down and in some place it is. I know it’s like I said, there’s there’s a couple of, very well-known Catholic personalities who have shared it on their socials already, which is great.
00:35:25:25 – 00:35:43:26
Speaker 1
But it’s going to things like this. Take the sharing of invested people who want something good to be known to others. And, on that website, I can see this without feeling like, oh, like I have divided motos. My, I got, of course, it doesn’t cost a lot of money to run this thing right now.
00:35:43:26 – 00:36:03:00
Speaker 1
It’s basically an informational site, but we’re thinking of, integrating, like, monthly check ins on how we’re growing as people in the worlds that we are in. And the whole site is designed to point people to go out into the world and grow as people and find mentors and grow, and get involved in the liturgies and to make the world a better place.
00:36:03:04 – 00:36:29:16
Speaker 1
It is not designed to say, come into my life, Tim. And I, we will form in our online chat groups and realms where it’s not that at all. It’s about getting to face to face relationship because that’s where friendships, actual friendships begin. And actual friendship, real holy friendship is the answer to the relational thirst that’s undergirding a lot of the the issues and a lot of people.
00:36:29:18 – 00:36:32:15
Speaker 1
So every Catholic.
00:36:32:17 – 00:36:52:10
Speaker 2
Well, and non-Catholics too, you know, I mean, at the Catholic, the Catholic teaching is a is available to anyone. And as we mentioned already, I think it will bless anyone who will embrace it. You know, you’re talking about the, the value of suffering, the redemptive suffering and the kind of the, the Catholic, the way the Catholic Church teaches about that.
00:36:52:12 – 00:37:15:20
Speaker 2
I since I have the catechism on my lap, I turn to page to, item 309, where this where this statement, this is the section on Providence and the scandal of evil. And that section ends this way. It says there is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not, in part, an answer to the question of evil.
00:37:15:22 – 00:37:38:07
Speaker 2
And I would like to leave that in everybody’s mind that that’s what we’re here to do. We’re not here to avoid the problem of evil. We’re here to confront it and to overcome it. And, this is what what Hudson has shared with us today is a part of how we deal with one part of one kind of evil and problem that is so prevalent in our world today.
00:37:38:09 – 00:37:39:08
Speaker 2
Did you want to add something?
00:37:39:13 – 00:37:58:29
Speaker 1
I did want to say, and I say wholeheartedly that the idea that people are automatically deprived from that potentiality of entering into the fullness of a holy vocation, as in marriage to either the church or to an opposite sex spouse because of some experience or desire that they might have had or are struggling with or whatever that is.
00:37:58:29 – 00:38:24:12
Speaker 1
An idea that does not come from God is an evil idea that has brought so many people into despair. And I just thank God that that the opportunity has come to help bring that to light, to show people that that fulfillment is possible. It begins with the surrender to the Lord. And of course, the surrender to growing the heart of virtue can begin immediately.
00:38:24:15 – 00:38:29:21
Speaker 1
No, no special steps. Just begin with that. Surrender immediately.
00:38:29:23 – 00:38:39:01
Speaker 2
Hudson below. This has been a very uplifting and interesting conversation. I want to thank you so much for being my guest on today’s episode of The Doctor J show.
00:38:39:04 – 00:38:40:04
Speaker 1
It’s been a pleasure. Thank you.
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