Hudson Byblow speaks about the Catholic Faith in engaging, personalized, and trauma-informed ways, formed by his own journey of coming home to the Catholic Church – the last place the world said he should ever look! After leaving behind his prior-held “LGBTQ+ is who I am” mindset to in favor of striving to grow in the virtue of chastity, he has come to experience greater peace, joy, hope, love, and freedom than what he ever before knew was possible.
In this conversation, Dr. Jennifer Roback-Morris and Hudson Byblow explores the complexities of identity politics, particularly in relation to LGBT experiences and the Catholic understanding of chastity. Byblow shares his personal journey of reconciling his same-sex attractions with his faith, emphasizing the importance of pursuing virtue and understanding chastity as a transformative process. They discuss the distinctions between chastity, celibacy, and abstinence, and the detrimental effects of resentment on personal growth. The conversation also highlights red flags in discussions surrounding LGBT identities and the importance of seeking a deeper, more fulfilling understanding of one’s vocation in life.
Watch the full episode on censorship-free Rumble or Locals:
Rumble: https://rumble.com/v6t6m2n-hudson-byblows-story-will-deepen-your-faith-a-catholic-witness-of-healing-a.html
Locals: https://theruthinstitute.locals.com/post/6917798/hudson-byblows-story-will-deepen-your-faith-a-catholic-witness-of-healing-hope
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Hudson Byblow is a Catholic Speaker and author who specializes in training faithful Catholics how they can respond to all things LGBTQ+ in an authentically Catholic way. He is also the founder of Something More Beautiful, a site that helps people understand that just because LGBTQ+ desires/experiences might be part of their story, they are not automatically excluded from holy vocation to holy, chaste marriage.
LINK: https://smbm33.com/
Chapters
00:00 Exploring Identity Politics and Its Impact
03:12 Hudson Byblow’s Journey and the Concept of Chastity
05:59 Something More Beautiful: A New Ministry
08:49 Understanding Chastity: Definitions and Misconceptions
12:10 The Distinction Between Chastity, Celibacy, and Abstinence
14:56 Resentment and Its Impact on Chastity
17:47 Red Flags in Understanding Sexual Identity
21:04 The Connection Between Pornography Addiction and Same-Sex Attraction
23:56 The Origins of Same-Sex Attraction: A Personal Perspective
Hudson Byblow Interviews:
Trauma-Informed Education & Evangelization | Hudson Byblow on The Dr J Show ep. 152
https://youtu.be/bsq4c7D3tD8
Transcript
(Please note the transcript is auto-generated and likely contains errors)
Interview Transcript: Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse & Hudson Byblow
00:00:00:16 – 00:00:27:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
We’ve all heard the sentiment. Gay is who I am, or lesbian is my true identity. But is this identity politics mindset really helpful? Is it even necessary? Hi everyone. I’m Doctor Jennifer Roback Morris, founder and president of the Roots Institute, an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love. Today, I’m delighted to have Mr. Hudson Bibeau as my guest.
00:00:27:25 – 00:00:57:26
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Hudson is a Catholic speaker and author whose specializes in helping people respond to all things LGBT in an authentically Catholic way. He’s the founder of Something More Beautiful. This project helps people understand that just because LGBT desires or experiences are a part of their story, they’re not automatically excluded from a vocation to holy, chaste matrimony. While you’re listening to this conversation, be sure to write down the names of people to share it with.
00:00:57:28 – 00:01:21:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You surely know someone who would benefit from Hudson’s insights. And I can’t find those people without your help.
00:01:21:07 – 00:01:24:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Hudson, Biblio. Welcome to the doctor show.
00:01:24:18 – 00:01:25:19
Hudson Byblow
Very happy to be back.
00:01:25:20 – 00:01:39:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Thanks for. Well, great. It’s good to talk with you again. And keep up with your with your new projects and stuff. So could you just briefly tell us a little bit about your personal journey and how you got into this whole line of inquiry.
00:01:39:08 – 00:01:57:26
Hudson Byblow
And this line and ministry area? Well, short story is that, my testimony which is out there? It’s it’s that classic story. How on earth could I ever belong in? The Catholic Church? Is the last place the world says I could ever be or ever belong? Because same sex attractions and transgender inclinations as they be described.
00:01:57:26 – 00:02:32:18
Hudson Byblow
And they may be, they’re both part of my story, right? And so after encounter, after encounter, after encounter with beautifully hearted, faithful Catholics who who love me where I was and walked with me towards, deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. Here I am, the short, short version. But yeah, it’s been a it’s a it’s been a beautiful journey of discovering the true meaning of chastity, as the church understands and actually opening my heart to grow in the fullness of virtue, which is a lot better than, the time before when I.
00:02:32:21 – 00:02:45:13
Hudson Byblow
When I didn’t understand that stuff. And life is a lot more about simply trying to behave right or to suppress desires and and all that, instead of looking towards the transformation of heart that can come through a deepening relationship with Jesus Christ.
00:02:45:16 – 00:03:02:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So, so perhaps we’ll get into more detail as we go along, because I want to, help people see what your ministries are and so on, and how they fit in with the larger project of the Ruth Institute, because by this time, we’ve interviewed quite a few people who have had some form of an LGBT identity or experiences.
00:03:02:08 – 00:03:23:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And there are common themes in all those stories. And but there are also unique differences. So we’ll come to that as we go along. So let’s just dive right in and tell us about your new project, Something More Beautiful. If I understand it correctly, this is partly a response to the cultural occurrence that that you think are misleading or that you think are incomplete, however well-intended they may be.
00:03:23:17 – 00:03:32:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So. So when you say something more beautiful. What is this? Something that you’re talking about? And more beautiful. More beautiful than what? Okay, fill in the blanks for us here.
00:03:32:25 – 00:03:54:28
Hudson Byblow
Sure I have, I’m happy to. This is very exciting for me to to be able to be here, to bring this. Because I’ve sprinkled this idea to several people I know who’ve been, they’ve, on their own accord, have decided to walk away from the lgtbq as who I am mindset because they were not happy in that, and they were taught in that mindset that, certain doors were automatically closed to them.
00:03:54:28 – 00:04:18:03
Hudson Byblow
Like, for example, the idea of, a natural marriage to an opposite sex spouse and becoming a husband and father or a wife and a mother and all those things were closed, these people. But I came to realize through, oh, boy, I’ve been talking about this for 15 years and growing, like, with good mentorship for a long time, that those doors are not automatically closed for people with who who had those experiences.
00:04:18:03 – 00:04:39:28
Hudson Byblow
And as part of their story, those doors are not automatically closed at all. But they’re open for anybody who authentically pursues the virtue of chastity or will only, I mean, authentically pursues a growth in the fullness of virtue as they are understood by the church, because that equates to or points to holiness, right and personal holiness, and personal surrender to Jesus Christ.
00:04:40:01 – 00:05:06:27
Hudson Byblow
What that does is it brings about the transformation of heart and ultimate desire through which, as anybody knows, attachments to other things that, in the world drip, drip away and you end up with, with an understanding of, of the reality that God has vocations written for us, potential vocations written for us from the beginning, and a mere experience or things that might have happened in our past.
00:05:06:29 – 00:05:27:12
Hudson Byblow
They don’t mean those those vocations are off the table. It’s just that we have to enter into that restorative journey towards knowing the fullness of virtue. So I’m really excited about that. The ministry is called Something More Beautiful, and how that came to be was, occasionally in my writing, that phrase would come up and it was like the Holy Spirit was just saying, that’s the one.
00:05:27:14 – 00:05:58:12
Hudson Byblow
That’s the phrase, that’s the phrase. And I kind of brought this to prayer for it, but maybe a year and a half or so and it kept coming up. And so I knew that I had to go forward with this. So created the Something More Beautiful website, maybe about a year ago already in its kind of like test form to kind of like work out details and really to bring it to prayer, because nothing like this can be successful unless it’s basically not just rooted, but like begun with prayer and maintained with prayer.
00:05:58:15 – 00:06:17:15
Hudson Byblow
And so, yeah, that’s where we are right now. We’re just the ministry is being, let’s say launched kind of on the more of a person to person sort of basis. I know it’s being shared by some, some, some quite well-known, Catholic personalities right now, which is great on their websites and on their socials.
00:06:17:18 – 00:06:39:14
Hudson Byblow
So that’s really exciting. And, again, what is this website about? It’s about helping people understand that you’re not automatically excluded from these, and that the way forward in, in life for everybody really is to grow in the fullness of virtue and understand what that means, what is true, holy femininity and true holy masculinity. I mean, in light of growing in the virtues.
00:06:39:17 – 00:07:04:22
Hudson Byblow
And and this is under undergirded by the the transformative heart that has occurred. It’s the joy that I experienced today and several others I know, because this site isn’t just about me. It’s not really about me at all. It’s I’m one of the three, people who are kind of involved as the core team, who all have stories from different angles.
00:07:04:25 – 00:07:25:10
Hudson Byblow
But we’ve all found that through the pursuit of, virtue, as understood by the church, that there is freedom, there is hope, for something more beautiful. And for one, it’s already, now it’s it’s, you know, marriage to an opposite sex spouse. And it’s beautiful. And, they’re kind of on their way with their family and stuff like that.
00:07:25:16 – 00:07:50:19
Hudson Byblow
And the other one is someone who’s, walked away after, Oh, gosh. Up to, I think, two decades of living a life inside an LGBTQ, mindset of who they were and, and active in the, sexually active lifestyle. And then there’s mine, too, now, which was, you know, also, departed from holy living.
00:07:50:26 – 00:08:08:10
Hudson Byblow
I wouldn’t say, so so we all, we all share this joy. And underneath it all is like, if only we could bring this to people so they could understand. Also, because the despair of swirling in this idea that, oh my gosh, this is it. I just have to, like, white knuckle my behaviors for the rest of my life.
00:08:08:10 – 00:08:35:13
Hudson Byblow
I like white knuckle. My, like, what I’m saying is, like, not do what I feel like I have the urges to do because I need to be a good Catholic and and leave it like that. Like that’s just a miserable place to be to see that God. Especially to believe that, like, perhaps God made you this way and this is like your launch or your cross to suffer this way that your and your, your, excluded from, excluded from that holy vocation.
00:08:35:13 – 00:08:47:21
Hudson Byblow
It’s just, so something more beautiful is, is is, something we have to lift the conversation higher is what it is. And. Yeah. So yes, it will be a testament to that.
00:08:47:23 – 00:09:04:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. And and along in in what you just said, you’ve mentioned the word chastity and you mentioned the word virtue on a number of occasions. And so, you rely on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And I just want to put in a plug for everybody. If you are a Roman Catholic, you need to have this on your shelf.
00:09:04:28 – 00:09:25:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
If you don’t have your own physical copy, you should you should get one. If you’re not Roman Catholic, I would suggest you go online and look at it, at least the part about the sixth commandment, the thou shalt not commit adultery. Because what you’ll find when you look at that material is that the Catholic Church has an integrated view of human sexuality and an integrated view of chastity.
00:09:25:07 – 00:09:48:26
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And we’re not just singling out gay people to be especially mean to gay people or something like that. All the parts fit together. And so what I like to do, Hudson, is to, is to just quote a little bit from the Catechism. So number 2338 says all the baptized are called to chastity, all Christ faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states in life.
00:09:48:28 – 00:10:03:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Okay. So can you tell people just a little bit, how would you define chastity? Oh, or if you want me to, I can read what the how the church defines it. But but, how would you define chastity and how would you compare it to some of the other terminology that’s that’s sometimes used.
00:10:04:02 – 00:10:27:25
Hudson Byblow
Sure. Fascinating. I think it’s fascinating because that that word is Polish. Emic is what the word is. It means it means different things to different people. So chastity to me means what is said in the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church. I, I didn’t understand chastity to mean that earlier. And I think, I mean, what what’s coming to mind just off the top of my head is successful integration of our sexuality.
00:10:28:01 – 00:10:53:23
Hudson Byblow
That’s, I think, in the first sentence of catechism 2337. And I like one one thing that you mentioned in 2338, there is all people are called to chastity, of course, regardless of state in life, marriage single but catechism. Paragraph 25 talks about church teachings being proposed for all people. And I want to just highlight that the call to chastity is a proposal of the church for us to assent to.
00:10:53:25 – 00:11:24:15
Hudson Byblow
And and I bring this up because some people think it’s imposition. Right. It’s a proposition for a much more beautiful, like joyful life, more peace, joy, hope, love, freedom, you name it. Sense of purpose. Not an imposition. And all of the church’s teachings are propositions and, so. Yeah. And so breaking open the meaning of successful integration of our sexuality like that, you know, that cracks open a whole, several other things.
00:11:24:15 – 00:11:49:26
Hudson Byblow
For example, we know that, one of the definitions of sin is to go against truth. That’s catechism, 1849, and so successful led to the successful integration of our sexuality. Can’t counter the truth of God’s ordered creation. And so I got thinking about that. And and it it really made it very clear for me that part of what God authored into creation is the is the complementarity between male and female physiologically.
00:11:49:29 – 00:12:14:29
Hudson Byblow
And so, so two desire in relation sort of to, to hold on, to be attached to desires that would counter that is to be attached to ideas that are counter to the virtue of chastity. I came to a point after tasting the joy of chastity. I wanted to let go of things that were counter to chastity, and so I knew that I could never, reconsider the idea of a same sex romantic or sexual relationship.
00:12:14:29 – 00:12:44:10
Hudson Byblow
Because by design, by God’s authorship, they are, the physiological complementarity between male and female is is, countered. Likewise. The idea that, males are created as males and females are created as females, and that includes genetic variations of that, too. But there’s still the two sexes. And to reject to reject the idea that there’s two sexes is also an idea mindset that is counter to the virtue of chastity.
00:12:44:12 – 00:13:09:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So what I like about what you’re saying is that the successful integration of a person’s sexuality is really the work of a lifetime. It’s not simply, oh gosh, I’m not going to have sex with someone I’m not married to, right? But as a woman who’s been married for 40 years to the same man, I mean, I can tell you that the appreciation of him as a man, my appreciation of myself as a woman, how I am a gift woman is a gift for man.
00:13:09:03 – 00:13:31:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Man is a gift for a woman. That is something that is, you know, we’re still delving into that because it’s, as you say, it’s more beautiful, you know, the deeper, the more deeply you enter into that, the more beautiful it really is. And and the God present to us in our bodies, you know, it’s like you really shouldn’t be able to ignore or, you know, something that’s like, so obvious.
00:13:31:00 – 00:13:52:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, in general material, right? Is right there. And yet we do. But, but on the other hand, to enter into it is to commit to a lifelong journey of ever deepening appreciation for oneself as a as an embodied soul and for one’s spouse and for the people around you and, you know, and and all of the rest of it.
00:13:52:11 – 00:14:26:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So that’s what I meant when I, when I said at the very beginning that this is the that the church has a fully integrated view of this matter. That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. And, and I like the fact that you emphasize propose this is proposed. I’ve often said that the church’s teaching will bless anyone who embraces it as an individual or as a society if you embrace it and really enter into it, you will be blessed by it because it corresponds to to what is true.
00:14:26:11 – 00:14:48:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But as a practical matter, there are a couple of other words that need to be somehow teased out, that I’ve seen you write about this and talk about this chastity. We’re talking about this as a virtue. But then there’s also the word celibacy, and also the word about penance. Can you explain how these concepts, these are obviously related concepts, but they’re not exactly the same.
00:14:48:29 – 00:14:54:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So can you spell out for us how you see those three concepts.
00:14:54:13 – 00:15:15:25
Hudson Byblow
Sure. Happy to. So again, those and those words are in the same ballpark. Right. And so oftentimes they get tossed around as interchangeable, as though they’re the same thing. And there’s a real flaw to that way of thinking or let’s say, shortcoming that can actually inhibit a lot of, truth that can be freeing for a lot of people.
00:15:15:25 – 00:15:42:06
Hudson Byblow
So I’ll get that in a second. So if I could just make a quick distinction between the three, I would condense it to this chastity has to do with the degree to which we are surrendering our hearts to the authorship of God in the realm of sexuality. And so it’s about our heart, about our deepest desires of our heart, and whether we want to, align ourselves with what God has written into creation instead of, something I desire.
00:15:42:06 – 00:16:03:29
Hudson Byblow
My point is towards, abstain. This, this this word, I think, would be fairly understood as just simply abstaining from doing something. But what that points to is it being about primarily about the behavior. So, yeah, chastity about the heart absence about behavior. And then celibacy, of course, just has a is a term related to whether a person is married or not.
00:16:04:07 – 00:16:32:22
Hudson Byblow
So, I’m an unmarried state, so I’m in the celibate state. Right. So, someone who’s not married, sorry, someone who is married is not in a celibate state, has nothing to do with, appetites or desires or activity, any of that kind of stuff. So those are the three distinctions. And of course, each one of those things could be expanded upon way more, but it’s it’s it’s worthy because, for example, imagine if we had celibate clergy who were unchanged.
00:16:32:24 – 00:16:55:08
Hudson Byblow
Imagine if there were people like that. Right. And the destruction that could happen with that. It would be much, much more appropriate, actually, to have chaste celibacy. In fact, that’s what the Catechism calls for, for celibate celibacy to be lived out joyfully. But you can’t live out celibacy joyfully unless it’s also chaste. So these words do deserve like exploration.
00:16:55:08 – 00:17:01:13
Hudson Byblow
I hope that’s a springboard for people to explore. What is celibacy? What is a chastity? What is, what is abstinence? And the deeper.
00:17:01:16 – 00:17:25:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Could I just clarify that one point? So the celibacy refers to a state of life. So a person who is not married is in the celibate state, but they might be not abstinent, they might be sexually indulgent and they might not be chaste or what? Chastity is something that’s, since it’s a virtue, there are degrees of it, you know.
00:17:25:09 – 00:17:54:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. But but there’s confusion, it seems to me. Has created a almost like a gateway for people to do things that are not to be done. For example, I have heard of people saying, well, I’m celibate, but celibate just means I’m not married. That’s all it means. So I can do whatever the heck I want. And we’ve got clergy, obviously, who have been conducting themselves with that mindset, you know, and telling themselves somehow kidding themselves into thinking that this is okay.
00:17:54:13 – 00:17:59:28
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So, so is there more you want to say about this? Do you feel like we’ve covered that because,
00:18:00:02 – 00:18:30:17
Hudson Byblow
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think just one more thing. I guess, really, for people to understand that person can be abstinent without being celibate or chaste. Celibate without being absence of change or change without being celibate are absent. Like that’s how different they are. And to that point, to use those words interchangeably, especially chastity and abstinence, you’re just guaranteeing that there will be any inhibitions of truth in what’s coming out term that guaranteed for the truth of the impaired, guaranteed life without fail.
00:18:30:22 – 00:18:32:20
Hudson Byblow
It can’t not be.
00:18:32:22 – 00:19:07:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You use the term earlier, and I’ve heard this term before. White knuckle chastity. Which is which means that you’re abstinent, but you’re. But it’s like, it’s like you’re taking castor oil or something, you know, it’s not like there’s no joy in it kind of thing. It, it and I guess what it’s referring to is that you’re not, you’re not having, you’re not sexually active as the term goes, but you’re also not chaste.
00:19:07:06 – 00:19:27:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You’re also not you’re not fully integrated. Your sexuality is not fully integrated. So we’ve got these guys that call themselves incels. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this. It’s a little bit of a tangent, right? These are what they call them. So they’re involuntarily celibate. And they feel cheated that no one will have sex with them, that they can’t find a willing partner.
00:19:27:01 – 00:19:47:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And it’s like they’re really when you encounter them online, it’s like, oh, these guys are really very strange. You know, I this is a very strange mindset. Am I correct in saying that those guys are, I don’t want to say victims of this confusion, but but they don’t get it. I mean, there’s something fundamentally that they’re not getting.
00:19:47:14 – 00:19:50:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Can you come? Do you want to comment on that or would you rather just leave that?
00:19:50:24 – 00:20:14:04
Hudson Byblow
I mean, I could I’m a little bit sure, I see that. I mean, that’s headspace. There’s resentment and a coyness, like, I mean, I don’t have the quote or whatever, but like, I think it’s a quite and it talks about resentment being the enemy of chastity, like resentment kills resentment kills the heart. It destroys, the light that a person could shine the light of Christ.
00:20:14:07 – 00:20:35:14
Hudson Byblow
And, you know, when people’s expectations are set, somehow that, some woman ought to have sex with them because of God knows what reason, and then that’s not met. There comes the resentment. And this actually does tie into this topic overall because, you know, I’ve been given talks on this topic for 12 years now. I can’t believe it.
00:20:35:17 – 00:20:58:02
Hudson Byblow
But one thing I’ve realized is that there are people with stories like mine, okay, this part of their story, and they’re trying to move, or some people do not want to move forward and to grow in healthy ways, and other people do. If I could categorize the most people into two categories, there’s a degree. There are some some people who who prefer to stay where they are, believing that they’re victims of circumstance.
00:20:58:03 – 00:21:16:04
Hudson Byblow
And, inside that you have a lack of choices to become a better man or a better woman, you know what I mean? Or they’re not choosing. That is what I mean. There’s there’s the choices to grow as men or women, but they’re choosing to not do that and instead to stay in that headspace of where they are.
00:21:16:06 – 00:21:53:04
Hudson Byblow
I don’t know, I don’t think that’s, in alignment with, let’s say, the pursuit of any holy vocation at all, which involves moving forward to growing, especially in the fullness of virtue. So, yeah, where I see resentment, especially resentment to resentment, to, to in those cases, a lot of times resentment to women for not giving them what they want, but what I also when I also see resentment towards the, the church of the true spotless bride of Christ, the church as the, as the one who brings forth the catechism and resentment towards the authority of the church with regards to faith and morals.
00:21:53:07 – 00:21:57:10
Hudson Byblow
That also is red flags all night long.
00:21:57:12 – 00:22:18:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. Speaking of red flags, I’ve developed a theory that I’d like your opinion of. Okay. So by this time I’ve, I’ve interviewed quite a few people who, who’ve had some version of this of the story and I, I’ve concluded the following. If somebody says God made me gay, in my mind, that’s a big red flag.
00:22:18:08 – 00:22:40:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That that idea that God made me gay. And the secular equivalent of that idea is I was born this way. To me, if a if an individual embraces that idea, if a ministry builds itself, builds that into its, approach and stuff, that’s a big red flag in my mind. And I have my reasons why I think that.
00:22:40:19 – 00:23:00:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But I wonder, do you think that is a reasonable what would we call it, a threshold question, like if you a litmus test. Okay. Do I want to do I want to get involved with this group? Do they think God made me gay? If so, no thanks. That that would be that would be my kind of short version.
00:23:00:12 – 00:23:02:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What do you think of that person?
00:23:02:08 – 00:23:24:23
Hudson Byblow
Yeah, I think that would be a good piece of the puzzle for the litmus test. First of all, the catechism, is what it talks about, homosexual attractions. I think that’s 23, 57. It talks about the Genesis being to some degree unexplained. I don’t have the right wording right now, but it doesn’t. It’s speaks to the opposite of people being born that way or created that way.
00:23:24:23 – 00:23:45:28
Hudson Byblow
So right off the bat, assuming that people are created this way or born this way, I’ll specifically say created this way because who knows what happens in utero, right? That’s decisively a counter to the Catechism. And the catechism, of course, is the compendium of faith and, teachings on faith and morals, pointed toward by the profession of faith on the Vatican website.
00:23:46:03 – 00:24:18:02
Hudson Byblow
Most people don’t know about the profession of faith. So, yeah, I think that would be a definite red flag. But another red flag would be the, the discussion of chastity or even claiming that you, support chastity, but then take on a different meaning of the word, for example, speaking about chastity, but using it as a euphemism for abstinence or celibacy, because yet there’s a guaranteed inhibition of truth.
00:24:18:04 – 00:24:41:20
Hudson Byblow
It’s not helping elevate the conversation to the realm of virtue to begin with, which provides those the opportunities for people to realize that there is, a potentiality for the fulfillment of holy vocation, which is something that will never come across the table if, if, if the conversation stays at the white knuckled abstinence or the wording of chastity while it’s being used as a euphemism, that’s abstinence.
00:24:41:20 – 00:25:08:10
Hudson Byblow
So red flags. Yeah. The focus on, the white, the white knuckling is, is the best your life is ever going to be, you know, number two, using ignoring the wisdom of the church to define the word of chastity to begin with. So pointing towards chastity being used as the euphemism of abstinence. Man, anything that doesn’t help people enter potentially understanding the reality.
00:25:08:12 – 00:25:30:09
Hudson Byblow
God did write a holy vocation for them, and they’re not automatically excluded from that. I think it’s problematic. We need to help elevate that conversation. And so if people if they could go to, Catholic, you know, cite here, here, here, here, here and, and if they can look through that lens of seeing, how is this word being used, is this being used in accordance to church teachings?
00:25:30:15 – 00:25:45:02
Hudson Byblow
And is this group of person pointing people to other groups that are affirming the, lgtbq as who you are mindset? And if they are like, that’s a whole bouquet of red flags, right?
00:25:45:07 – 00:26:08:27
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So let me, let me, let me change, change the subject slightly. I’m not really changing the subject. I want to throw new light on the same subject by bringing up a different group of people, which is to say, people who are addicted to pornography. Okay, I think almost anyone gay or straight, Catholic or not Catholic, would agree that being addicted to pornography is not chaste and not good.
00:26:08:27 – 00:26:29:24
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know that it is not good for a person to be, even if you think, oh, it should be legal, consenting adults, yada yada yada. Person who’s addicted is not free. Okay, but when you’re in the throes of the addiction where you’re in the throes of the addictive process, your first priority may be, I gotta stop doing this, and I gotta figure out how to stop doing this.
00:26:29:24 – 00:26:54:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so that’s like step one. You got to get past that. But at the same time, the reason you want to get past that is that you hope there’s something more beautiful than right. You hope there’s something better than a relationship with the screen, you know, which isn’t a relationship funeral. Pick up that analogy for us, Hudson, and see if it’s.
00:26:54:09 – 00:27:05:21
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Let’s see what we can uncover by looking at looking at that kind of process that a that a porn addict might go through, how it might compare to somebody who’s dealing with persistent same sex attraction.
00:27:05:24 – 00:27:25:16
Hudson Byblow
Oh, sure. Yeah. So people who are struggling with pornography and of course, that’s part of my history, too, is that there’s the desire to stop and sometimes, you know, the desire to stop alone isn’t going to stop people. Right. The reason why. Right. It’s the same thing in many, pursuits people do in life. They say, what is your why?
00:27:25:19 – 00:27:50:29
Hudson Byblow
You know, and if your why is something outside of you that matters and it’s large. Typically those are the impactful. Those are the ones that are more successful in in hitting those targets. You know, I want to do this for my kids or I want to do this for my community. Right. And I think humans have this tendency to take on all else constant take care of people who understand better than they take care of themselves.
00:27:50:29 – 00:28:19:02
Hudson Byblow
So it points to that, you know, but including the let’s say, when when I was walking through that in my early years of of trying to break free of that and learning about chastity, that really helped me understand the why. And for me, the why was like, I want to, honor the, sexuality of the people on the screen, which means they should be seen as persons above, objectifying anything, first of all.
00:28:19:07 – 00:28:42:24
Hudson Byblow
And so, you know, they deserve to be prayed for instead of, stared at and, and and, that, you know, these are people too, right? And if you start thinking about that and think the thing about what a successful integration look like in their life and it’s not being engaged in that and successful integration, your life is not looking at that stuff and saying, why do I want to do this?
00:28:42:24 – 00:29:00:04
Hudson Byblow
Why I want to do this because I want to honor the authorship of God. That was the big one for me. It’s like God’s the divine artist. If I truly do love him, I’m going to act like it. I’m going to try to act like it right? As a matter of trying to love God. Better if I didn’t have that underneath it.
00:29:00:07 – 00:29:31:06
Hudson Byblow
I can tell you for sure I would have been less successful in it, you know? So just trying to trying to love God more and how that would relate to this whole thing with sample more. Beautiful again, God wrote us, all of us. I like the phrase like as love notes to the world right now. Imagine if the world just we just crumpled up those notes and threw them on the ground and they were not, you know, opened up and read the way he intended, like the beauty and richness of each person has to offer or is able to offer to the world, is only manifest through the pursuit of virtue, in which
00:29:31:06 – 00:29:58:12
Hudson Byblow
person becomes alive in what what they can fully give. Because through that the Lord, the Lord comes through people more profoundly. As we grow in holiness and virtue. Right. And so that in this topic of same sex attractions and everything is much more powerful in terms of like the transformative effect of the transformation on the heart than just trying to white knuckle it or to suppress a behavior right.
00:29:58:15 – 00:30:22:17
Hudson Byblow
And suppressing a behavior is like saying no. Well, opening your heart to Jesus is like saying yes. And the holy vocation always, tethered to yes. You know. Right. And so anything that gets a red flag, if you have, like a Catholic approach that is simply about the. No. Then also that is missing. It’s off course.
00:30:22:17 – 00:30:55:11
Hudson Byblow
I mean, it might be good in the fact that it encourage people to not engage in sinful acts of, same sex sexual activity or transgender pursuits, which, of course, are counter to the truth of God’s authorship. Okay. But, you know, is it elevating things into the. Yes. And saying, yes, Lord, I surrender to you, and I surrender my attachments to my perspective of who I am and everything in favor of embracing the successful information of my sexuality, including the idea that the next chapter of my life is not written yet.
00:30:55:11 – 00:31:13:17
Hudson Byblow
And holy vocations can be a piece of that puzzle. And I’m holding the pen and how that turns out. I’m not a victim. I’m not a victim of circumstances who just has to sit here and say, oh, God gave me the short end of the stick, you know? And I just, you know, this is my special cross as an lgtbq Catholic.
00:31:13:20 – 00:31:33:20
Hudson Byblow
That is, you know, what? The people who come to me say they are there. They find me because of the despair that they have found themselves in. After embracing that other idea long enough, it’s unfulfilling to them, and they want something more beautiful that there’s the line. It just keeps coming up.
00:31:33:22 – 00:31:34:28
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right? But so.
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About the Ruth Institute
The Ruth Institute is a global non-profit organization, leading an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love.
Jennifer Roback Morse has a Ph.D. in economics and has taught at Yale and George Mason University. She is the author of The Sexual State and Love and Economics – It Takes a Family to Raise a Village.
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