AJ Benjamin joins Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse to share a powerful story of healing from same-sex attraction and the deeper wounds that fed it — fatherlessness, confusion, and emotional pain. With honesty and humility, AJ walks us through the trauma he experienced as a child and how it distorted his identity, his relationships, and his view of God. Through years of spiritual growth and personal reflection, he came to see that his deepest needs weren’t about sexuality, but about truth, healing, and belonging.
Together, AJ and Dr. Morse explore how our culture often exploits emotional wounds rather than healing them — especially when it comes to sex, gender, and family life. They speak candidly about the ways trauma can mask itself as identity, and how the loss of strong father figures leaves children vulnerable to false ideologies. At the heart of their conversation is a call to compassion — not the kind that affirms everything, but the kind that loves enough to tell the truth.
This interview is filled with hope. AJ’s story is a testimony to the power of grace, the gift of confession, and the maternal care of Our Lady. His journey reminds us that healing is possible, that God hasn’t given up on us, and that love — real love — always leads us back to truth. Watch, share, and be encouraged.
Watch part 1 here: https://youtu.be/Uo0qXkqyT0U
Watch the full video on Rumble: https://rumble.com/v6skei5-what-if-youre-not-born-that-way-aj-benjamins-story-of-hope-healing-and-rede.html
Transcript
(Please note the transcript is auto-generated and likely contains errors)
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:30:08
AJ Benjamin
I tried it by, fueling that that that lost and it’s, and it’s, and it and in that sense. So, so where I was kind of looking for other men to kind of complete what I thought was lacking in myself. What I think a lot of men do is trying to, to look at themselves as kind of a ladies man, as a stud, to complete to, to, to heal them turns, to try to soothe that pain within, of, of feeling like they’re not man enough, that, that they don’t have what it takes to be a man.
00:00:30:13 – 00:00:40:00
AJ Benjamin
And unfortunately, in our society, that kind of stuff is encouraged. While I’m not wrong, I mean, that’s I, I well, nowadays kind of everything is encouraged but yeah.
00:00:40:02 – 00:00:43:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right, right right right.
00:00:43:10 – 00:01:08:07
AJ Benjamin
But back in the day, like it was even too, even though even though, you know, the, sexual experimentation and everything is, is encouraged, I think there’s still that, that underlying assumption that still that the, the, sexual act between a man and a woman is really the natural way to do it. And we can try to argue around that or dance around, probably, as in most matter, as emotionally dumb as you could possibly be.
00:01:08:07 – 00:01:23:19
AJ Benjamin
I mean, we just like it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s like the joke, you know, and I’ve had this joke with my wife, you know, she’s, you know, they have the proverbial. Well, how do you think that went. That’s like, oh, I fine it did not go fine. Here’s how it didn’t go by. You know, I mean it’s like, oh yeah, I need to see all those.
00:01:23:19 – 00:01:44:18
AJ Benjamin
But it’s there, all those layers, you know. But throughout history, they, you know, I think, I think men have always been in groups with mostly men. Most of the time you look at the apostles, what are the who are they with? Most of the time they were with each other on the boats, okay. And they were doing their job.
00:01:44:21 – 00:02:03:20
AJ Benjamin
They don’t. They saw their their wives when they went home. At the end of the day, they’re with the other men, their sons, their relatives. That’s the way it was for most of history. It’s only been like in the industrial realized age where, men have become more separated, where we don’t do things together. Even if men owned a shop or something.
00:02:03:22 – 00:02:29:10
AJ Benjamin
They had other men around them. Their their sons or something. People didn’t do it alone. So that’s how men learned socialization. I think that’s why we have so much of a disconnect in our modern society, because we don’t really have that vehicle for socialization or not many of those vehicles for appropriate male socialization, which does not usually happen on an emotionally expressive level, but rather through an activity level.
00:02:29:13 – 00:02:53:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right? Right. The activity. And you add to that the fact that industrialism has meant that fathers are out of the home for a large part of the day, meaning that the that what the son needs, what the child what the what the the immature man the little boy needs is not present for him in the same way that it would have been if he was underfoot at the shop, or working at the farm together, or what have you.
00:02:53:15 – 00:03:16:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So there’s a lot of things that are going into undermining the ability of men to develop a healthy sense of masculinity, healthy masculinity, not toxic masculinity. Right. You know, that that put all that, put all that aside. Right. I mean, I can I just ask you just for the record, you keep saying back in the day, would you just reveal to us what year were you born?
00:03:16:18 – 00:03:17:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Just so people.
00:03:17:12 – 00:03:19:18
AJ Benjamin
Consistently 75.
00:03:19:21 – 00:03:23:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Okay, just so people know, when back in the day was.
00:03:23:10 – 00:03:23:20
AJ Benjamin
I.
00:03:23:22 – 00:03:44:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Because even a few years difference makes a huge difference, actually, in people’s experience. Because so many things have changed so rapidly. So, if you don’t mind, I’d like you to talk with people a little bit about the spiritual aspect of your experience. We’ve been talking about the psychological, which is very important, and that is all taking place on the natural level.
00:03:44:13 – 00:04:10:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Anyone of any faith or no faith at all should be able to understand what you just said. You know, most of what we’ve talked about, but your journey has a very, powerful spiritual component. As many of the people I’ve interviewed, many of them have a powerful spiritual component. But yours is uniquely and distinctively Catholic. And so I’d like you to just jump in wherever you want in the flow.
00:04:10:11 – 00:04:20:27
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And that stream of that is your story. You’ve already alluded to the Mother of God playing a role in that story, but, just pick up that thread wherever you want.
00:04:21:00 – 00:04:48:04
AJ Benjamin
AJ okay. I think the thing that makes us, the, as Catholics, that makes us the most distinct, well, what that distinguishes us from every other, Christian church or denomination is the fact that we to have, Jesus and Mary as the new Adam and the new Eve as as the, the, the reflections of, while Jesus is being the perfect man and Our Lady being, humanly speaking, you know, the perfect woman.
00:04:48:17 – 00:05:18:27
AJ Benjamin
So we have two role models built into our faith. We take it a step further, where we have, Jesus present in the Holy Eucharist. Well, for me, foundationally, that’s the, it’s it’s that’s a big deal, because if I’m, if I’m looking to become more manly. Well, you know, really and I mentioned before it was almost, where, my lust for men was, something that I wanted to almost consume them.
00:05:19:00 – 00:05:47:22
AJ Benjamin
Well, that’s what Jesus is giving us is his, his own flesh and blood. I mean, if you want to, have, ehm, if a man or a woman wants to have, a man inside, you don’t get closer than that. He devises you by giving you his own flesh and blood to eat. And it it’s a scandal, really, when you think about it, how intimate he really is and how close he really is to us.
00:05:48:20 – 00:06:11:05
AJ Benjamin
So. And I think the Eucharist is really the, the central thing, and I’m sure, you know, as most Catholics do, that when you enter an empty Catholic church, you know, you’re not the only person in there. You’re not alone. And we all know that, and that’s something you don’t find in any other denomination, is that presence when that red light is on?
00:06:11:25 – 00:06:27:03
AJ Benjamin
And I used to be better at it, but I could use, I could use to be able to tell if the Eucharist was present or not. I’ve come into buildings and feel the presence, not knowing that the Eucharist was there. I went to a non-denominational chapel once and didn’t realize they had the Blessed Sacrament reserved, and I was.
00:06:27:05 – 00:07:02:11
AJ Benjamin
I thought it was strange that I felt the blessed presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Well, sure enough, I walked around the corner and there he was. You know, in the tap. They had a tabernacle reserved. The Catholic, campus ministry had a tabernacle reserved with the Eucharist. And it so I think that is that the key is that that Eucharistic sustenance, you know, and, and modeling myself after Jesus Christ as a, perfect man and Our Lady as stepping in for my earthly mother when maybe she couldn’t meet the needs that I needed.
00:07:02:11 – 00:07:25:18
AJ Benjamin
Met, she was always very present, even in times when I was rejecting God because of my own anger and pain. It was her I could never reject. You know, she was always around, and she was, you know, she was just a good Jewish mother, you know, she’s she’s she’s really, she looks after her kids. I mean, that’s what in my household, we usually call ourselves mama’s boys.
00:07:25:18 – 00:07:41:25
AJ Benjamin
Because, you know, we know we know that we belong to her, you know? But she. But she really is that, that the mother, the mother of the church and the mother of individual believers so that that’s that’s, you know, I think I have long and short of it.
00:07:41:28 – 00:07:51:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
May I may I just chime in, though, on that we went during the time that you were angry with God, were you also angry at Mary?
00:07:51:20 – 00:07:54:00
AJ Benjamin
No. I could never get mad at her.
00:07:54:03 – 00:08:10:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
She. That’s it. That is it. That’s what I try to explain to the Protestants. Nobody’s ever really been mad at Mary. People reject her. They have all their reasons for rejection. But you can’t be mad at her in the same way that you’re mad at God. And I think God knew that. You know, he knew that. You know?
00:08:10:12 – 00:08:30:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Come on. He created us. He knew we’d be needing a mama and that there would be times when we would not be able we wouldn’t want to go to our dad. You know, it’s like, I’m not talking to dad. No. You know, and then mom is all, honey, you have to talk to dad now, right? You know what kind of a thing you know that that’s what they have got.
00:08:30:10 – 00:08:53:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And I this this part of the conversation, my interview with Nancy Charles, those of you who haven’t seen that already, you really need to hear that. She she was she was suicidal, and she was. And she was not a believer. She was raised nominally Christian. She’d had multiple suicide attempts, not suicide, overdose overdoses, drug overdoses. Gay identified.
00:08:53:15 – 00:09:13:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Think she’s thinking she’s trans. She was she was near death. And she and she basically said, God, I need to know your real. Because if I kill myself, I need to know whether the pain is actually going to stop or if it’s going to get worse. So if you’re real, show me your real. And basically she found a rosary in a drawer and the rest is history, you know.
00:09:13:11 – 00:09:35:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So he sent his mom. Yeah, he sent his mom, you know, when she was crying out for help. So anyway, tell people about a bit about Fatma, because Fatma is an important part of your of your story. And I just think it’s very cool what happened to you because you had a confessional experience over there, as well as the whole Fatma experience.
00:09:35:08 – 00:09:37:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So just tell people a little bit about that.
00:09:37:25 – 00:09:59:22
AJ Benjamin
Yeah. And if you know people who don’t know anything about Fatma, I mean, it’s just, the scale of the miracle that was worked there. I mean, everything else pales in comparison. I mean, the probably the biggest, the three most miraculous. The apparitions in the world were probably Fatma, Lourdes and Guadalupe. You know, where the visible signs were left?
00:09:59:22 – 00:10:24:13
AJ Benjamin
You know, at the at the site. Fatma, no one to this day can explain what happened to the sun that day. No one can explain how they were standing in mud and it dried instantly after it happened. No one can explain how people were to, 70. At least 70,000 people watched the sun seem to fall out of the sky and hurl itself toward the earth.
00:10:25:01 – 00:10:48:04
AJ Benjamin
And it’s it’s just it’s it’s the cosmic significance of what happened there. And, and to even the to know that it was actually recorded by all the atheist newspapers who were the ones trying to disprove it, and they just said I people that wrote it just said, I just have to I don’t know what happened, but all I have to tell you is what the people are saying is true and that and that’s it.
00:10:48:15 – 00:11:07:09
AJ Benjamin
And maybe it’s a miracle of biblical proportions and, it, it’s and people say, oh, God doesn’t do that anymore. Well, he actually does, you know, and it’s not in modern history. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you know, and and Lords of the water, you know. Okay, I’ll go take over there in a spring is going to come up.
00:11:07:09 – 00:11:36:01
AJ Benjamin
But you got to be kidding me. There’s no spring here. Well, yeah, there I thought there is. There’s a spring there. You know, that’s hill mine. Guadalupe. Yeah. The more the research they do on it, the more they’re finding, like, put the modern techniques, the musical notes written into her dress and, constellations in the mantle that match the sky and the microscopic images and the eyeballs and the fact that the pigment doesn’t actually sit on the doesn’t actually sit on the fabric in the same way that it would if it were painted.
00:11:36:19 – 00:11:56:12
AJ Benjamin
But all of that, that, you know, going into that kind of set the stage for something very spectacular to happen. And it did. And for me, it was it in miniature. And, the main thing was with that experience and confession, being healed of that anger instantly, that was.
00:11:56:12 – 00:12:27:16
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. So, so, so let’s slow this whole thing down, you, because you’re an enthusiast, I can tell. And I am too. And I’m just going to say, for the record, I believe in these apparitions. These are apparitions approved by the Roman Catholic Church. They’ve been thoroughly investigated. Numerous miracles, meaning to say unexplained occurrences have taken place. And all three of these sites associated with all three of these things, and Fatima, took place in 1917, in Portugal.
00:12:27:27 – 00:12:51:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And there, you know, we could go on and on. Just about of the three little children. Mary revealed to them that that Russia, something spectacular was going to happen with Russia. We’ll how these three little illiterate kids know about the Russian Revolution, you know, I mean, it’s just too many things that can’t explain. But but I now want to go to your experience by a whole series of random things that you didn’t have much to do with.
00:12:51:03 – 00:13:13:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You ended up in Fatma, at a time that you were angry and you had a. You were dealing with a lot of anger, and you went to confession to a priest. So. And for those of you who don’t know, sacramental confession is where the priest acts in the person of Christ and you have a conversation with a human being who represents and is in some sacramental sense is Christ.
00:13:13:17 – 00:13:28:21
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And he talks to you and he gives you absolution for your sins. And that’s the context. And Catholics are supposed to do that on a regular basis. And with that stage set, AJ, tell people what happened to you in the confessional.
00:13:28:23 – 00:13:50:05
AJ Benjamin
And I would just to add to what you said, the sacraments do what they say they do. It’s not a washing away. It’s not a wiping away of sin. It’s removal of sin. You know, it’s not a, it’s not a cover up or it’s not, you know, it makes you feel better. It removes sin. You know, the way the Eucharist isn’t just a symbol.
00:13:50:05 – 00:14:20:19
AJ Benjamin
It’s not a symbolic thing. Confession isn’t symbolic. Something actually happens there. And that’s really where where it came with me was, you know, just, I confess for this, for that this is probably the the second time I had really discussed, you know, my same sex attraction with, a priest. Well, not not the second time, in in the depth that I did, I had, you know, there were, there were many priests that I had confessed to who were all helpful in their own way.
00:14:21:12 – 00:14:41:21
AJ Benjamin
But this one I just said, you know, I, I confessed him my anger at God for. You know what I thought, you know, making me gay for, you know, for, for, making me have this struggle. And the priest basically said, well, why, why are you blaming God for that? And I’m like, well, I mean, well, he he made it this way or I wouldn’t be this way.
00:14:41:21 – 00:15:00:13
AJ Benjamin
And and the priest has this. I mean, you’re there. People blame God for all sorts of things that they really shouldn’t blame him for. And I said, I know, and long story short, I said, you know, but I’m still angry with God. And he said, well, he said that God is going to take that away tonight. And instantly, that the anger just disappeared.
00:15:00:15 – 00:15:23:09
AJ Benjamin
I mean, it just removed the sin was from I never got angry again. Like I’ve questioned, I’ve forgotten. Been in situations where I’ve, you know, said, well, I don’t understand why you’re doing this. Like I’m frustrated. I don’t like this at all. I but I’m but not not angry. Like that again. And there was such a, a lightness of being after that confession.
00:15:23:22 – 00:15:43:29
AJ Benjamin
Like, I felt like years of burdens had just been lifted, and, it was that was really the beginning of my journey is just getting there, moving that block in my relationship with God. And I missed more detail in the book, but I know our time is limited, but that that’s the main thing, you know, and I was oh, I was,
00:15:44:01 – 00:15:54:13
AJ Benjamin
Oh my gosh. Yeah. You’re making me making me go back here. I guess I was, I man, I it’s been a long time. Probably probably. I was early 20s.
00:15:54:15 – 00:16:12:19
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Early 20s. That’s. Yeah, that’s what I remember. You were early, early 20s and and and the two big issues were the anger at God and the same sex attraction. And if I’m not mistaken, you, the priest also said getting rid of the same sex attraction is going to take a while. But the anger God is going to take away that tonight.
00:16:12:21 – 00:16:14:16
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That is that is that correct?
00:16:14:23 – 00:16:16:19
AJ Benjamin
That is correct, that is correct.
00:16:16:19 – 00:16:21:21
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And and he did. And that is what happened. And that is what happened. It took a while to deal with the same sex trade.
00:16:21:23 – 00:16:44:13
AJ Benjamin
Yes. Yes, I was a fadiman in 1996. I got married in 2003. So that’s a pretty hour looking like it’s about seven years, you know, which of course is a jubilee. You know, every seven years is the, you know, the typical, typical jubilee there. And, yeah. So it took a while, it took a while before that happened.
00:16:44:16 – 00:17:10:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Another important point here that we, that I’d like to draw out is that without removing the block in your, in your relationship with God, would that would the subsequent healing have been possible? I shouldn’t have put it as a question, I shouldn’t. I made a statement. I mean it as a question. Well, your relationship with God was itself part of the process of healing your same sex attraction.
00:17:10:27 – 00:17:31:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Is that is that correct? Is that safe to say, okay. So yeah. Yeah. I, I’m sorry I’m getting I, I’ve had this kind of conversation with a bunch of people and it all comes down to it in the end. It comes down to this, that the relationship with with Christ, is the thing that allows the other healing to happen, even when that’s not the primary purpose.
00:17:31:23 – 00:17:52:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, I’ve heard a number of people say, I, I stopped saying, God, make me straight. I just said, I just want to be close to you. Can I just be close to you? Will that be okay? Can we just do that and and then the feelings changed over time. The feelings kind of dissipated. I shouldn’t be telling you other people’s story.
00:17:52:06 – 00:17:59:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You should be telling me your story. I apologize, so, yeah. Tell me. Give me your version of that.
00:17:59:12 – 00:18:28:21
AJ Benjamin
That you’ve said it. Really? I mean, that that is it. Once I, I, I was always, You said before I was always close to my Catholic faith. I always believed in Jesus. But I didn’t know Jesus, like, knew me and believed in me. And that was the key. Knowing that he was personally involved and intimate with me and who I was, and he took a personal interest and was listening that we have personal, very personal and close God that walks with us.
00:18:28:23 – 00:18:51:12
AJ Benjamin
That was the game changer. So I think when you set your side, you’re telling other people’s stories, really are telling my stories because we’re all telling the same story, which is really his story. And that’s just our, our how we relate to to him and with him. So I don’t think I, I think it’s great that you’re saying similar things that other people have said, too, because it means that that that it works.
00:18:51:12 – 00:19:14:25
AJ Benjamin
It’s working, you know, and people have different degrees of healing. Some people may not get the degree that I got. Some people may get more than I got. Because Jesus, even in the Gospels, doesn’t heal the same way for everybody, you know, and he doesn’t always heal everyone. And even earlier on in my journey, I mentioned meeting, the servant of God, Maria Esperanza.
00:19:14:25 – 00:19:36:25
AJ Benjamin
There’s always a the seer of the Tania Venezuela. Know in in the 80s and 90s. And she, when, when I, she prayed over me. She wouldn’t even pray to ask for healing. She just said she she read my heart. She had a lot of Padre Pio gifts, and, she. And there’s a chapter in the book on on her as well.
00:19:37:13 – 00:19:55:03
AJ Benjamin
But she, it was to say that she didn’t. She just wasn’t like wasn’t wasn’t she wasn’t, you know, mean spirited or anything, but she just knew it wasn’t the time. So everybody, everybody got moves in the way that he knows is best for all of us. And to the degree that he knows is best for all of us.
00:19:55:06 – 00:20:10:06
AJ Benjamin
And I think your your, your point of, is, is really good. People often accuse us of trying to pray the gay away. And no, that’s not what we’re doing. We’re praying for a closer walk with Jesus, and we’re praying for healing and integration in whatever form he wants that to happen.
00:20:10:06 – 00:20:31:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And us and I’ve noticed in my conversation to AJ that that Jesus is doing this. Jesus is at work on the so-called gay community. You know, the people who are dealing with same sex attraction, and who want to deal with it, who want to be close to Jesus. He is really working on those people. And they’re not all Catholic.
00:20:31:23 – 00:20:52:26
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
They’re some of them are Pentecostal or just met a whole batch of Pentecostals, you know? I mean, they’re across the board. The Lord is at work, and I, I’ve felt for a long time that a lot of the pressures of the sexual revolution is putting on everybody, that the Lord can use that to heal, to heal the even deeper divisions that never should have been there in the first place.
00:20:52:26 – 00:21:16:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, I really, really feel the Lord’s at work in that, in that way and that that you all, who’ve made this journey are an important part of what he’s of what he’s about. And I’m, I’m I’m humbled by it, you know, to be honest, one thing that has come out of this series of interviews with, with people like yourself is hope for your parents.
00:21:16:05 – 00:21:42:28
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Okay. The your family members, in your case, your family didn’t really know what you were dealing with because of the way you conducted yourself. But I’m sure, you know, in a lot of families, that’s not the case. A lot in a lot of families, the, the the person who is, dealing with same sex attraction or gender dysphoria or any of those type of issues, that person really, which it wrecks, it wrecks the whole family in a lot of ways.
00:21:43:00 – 00:22:04:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What can you say to the parents, that and family members that would be helpful to them, what they can do to be helpful, what they shouldn’t do, maybe that would be not helpful. And oh, how they can sustain themselves while they’re watching their loved ones do whatever they need to do.
00:22:04:13 – 00:22:24:22
AJ Benjamin
That’s a great question. The first thing I would say is, never stop praying because you just don’t know how the Lord is going to work or when he’s going to work. It could be a deathbed thing. It could be, something that’s sooner than that. Pray make sacrifices, do penance fast. You know, all of that.
00:22:24:22 – 00:22:57:20
AJ Benjamin
Do all of those spiritual works. And then I never. You know, there may come times when you have to not, you know, when you have to not approve of, like, like, for instance, if somebody, you know, going to get married to somebody of the same sex, you obviously you can’t attend that wedding. But in, in as much as possible, I would say stay open and, and remain a connection as much as you possibly can.
00:22:58:06 – 00:23:29:19
AJ Benjamin
And if it helps on how open to some, some, children are more open with their parents than other children. So it’s going to it’s going to greatly depend on the relationship. But I would say always remain as present to your son or daughter as you can, you know, without compromising your own, morals. And I think you said it before about, you know, when you see you, you advise the boys like, you know, don’t ostracize that boy.
00:23:29:19 – 00:23:53:15
AJ Benjamin
Take that boy in, you know, and and that’s really what it is. That’s what the church calls us to. It’s what Jesus calls us to, It’s to love them. That doesn’t mean that by loving them. I think a lot of people who identify as gay would say, well, if you if you don’t, you know, love the fact that, you know, I’m, you know, with this guy, I identify this way, then you really don’t love me.
00:23:53:16 – 00:24:17:07
AJ Benjamin
Like I said, you know, there’s a lot of that kind of rhetoric, you know, over the election, you know, how can you vote for somebody who would harm me and blah, blah, blah, you know, that sort of thing. And, and it’s like, well, not exactly. And there are going to there’s going to be some times where we’re not going to have a lot of control over how other people are perceiving what we’re doing, but to the greatest degree possible, just be loving, nurturing as best you can while still remaining in the truth.
00:24:17:07 – 00:24:37:21
AJ Benjamin
Because love without truth is, is not really love. It’s it’s, you know, I think Mother Angelica used to say it, the people who tell you the truth love you. The people who tell you what you want to hear, love themselves. And, you know, so it’s. Yeah, it’s really it’s a great shift. It’s great. It’s it’s just got some great stuff going on there.
00:24:38:04 – 00:24:57:28
AJ Benjamin
But it’s, but at the same time, it is, it’s, it’s remaining in the truth. But always having, it’s a hard balance but always having that openness and that of at least that potential availability for love. You know, it’s like the prodigal, the prodigal son with the father always looking out for him to come to his senses and come back.
00:24:58:14 – 00:25:17:08
AJ Benjamin
You know, I know most or most of your listeners probably know that story already. But it’s that same thing where the father never stops looking out and parents shouldn’t stop looking for their their kids, even if they have are going in ways that are not necessarily what we would prefer. And, you know, we have that in small ways, even in our own family.
00:25:17:08 – 00:25:35:09
AJ Benjamin
We don’t we don’t always approve of every decision that our kids make. And as they get older, there’s less and less control over that. You know, what decisions they make? But we could still say, well, we don’t really like that. We love you about that. That crazy about that decision. Right. So right now that’s really where it is.
00:25:35:09 – 00:25:56:29
AJ Benjamin
And as best you can, you know that. That said, it’s a tight it’s a hard line to walk. But I would say stay in the truth, and be loving as best you can. Strike that balance. That’s probably a good general advice, I think, for everybody. And if your child is open by all means get them connected with resources to see if they can start working through some of that.
00:25:57:24 – 00:26:16:00
AJ Benjamin
Some kids are open to it and to have that relationship with their parents. That’s how parents have family members. Just I also don’t blame yourself because even if like, even if like you, you might have done stuff that, contributed to it and we all do. That’s why we are relationally we hurt each other. It’s just what happens.
00:26:16:00 – 00:26:35:16
AJ Benjamin
It’s original sin. Don’t let that stop you from starting again. You know, letting the Lord renew your relationship and asking him to come in and heal that relationship. And if you know that you’re doing stuff that’s exacerbating it, stop. Go to confession. Stop doing it. Try to make the change in your own life and see what the Lord might be calling you to repentance of.
00:26:35:16 – 00:26:56:14
AJ Benjamin
Of what? This is maybe not right in your life. Maybe how how is how is the Lord using this situation to highlight things he wants to do for you to make you a holier person? So that’s that’s what I would say, you know, to repent of what you can repent of, but don’t get hung up on it because most parents, if they knew what they were doing, was harmful.
00:26:56:16 – 00:27:28:04
AJ Benjamin
A lot of times it felt just a lack of insight from original sin of into our how our own actions really impact each other. Most parents, if they knew, would stop. And wouldn’t or would not have proceeded if they had better insight into it. So that’s the other thing I would say is to just make sure that there is that, you know, that willingness and that openness not only to their children, but to their own healing and their own holiness.
00:27:30:01 – 00:27:47:19
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, in a sense, every act of repentance is miraculous, because we resist it. We resist it so much. You know, we want to think well of ourselves. We don’t want to admit we did it in the first place. Much do we want to change? But but, but the fact is, it’s the only way forward for everyone, you know.
00:27:47:19 – 00:28:08:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And and what I like about what you just said is that you’re, you’re helping people to have a balanced view of what may have what may have happened in your family. You know, it’s not just you, it’s not just your son, son. It’s not just you. It’s not just your parents. It’s so, you know, it’s the it’s the package in each person can contribute to to improving the package.
00:28:08:22 – 00:28:28:28
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. And and then and then release the outcome. Leave the outcome to God. I will just say that whenever we have one of these interviews with somebody who’s taking this journey, there will be people in the comments who also really mean things and including what you just said. You’re not really you weren’t really gay in the first place, or you’re still gay.
00:28:28:28 – 00:28:51:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You sound gay. He sounds gay. Jennifer. Doctor Morris, you really shouldn’t have guys like this who sound gay. And I’m like, what does it mean to say, Get what? He has a list. He has an accent. He’s from gay. I mean, you know what? What are we trying to say here? And it all it all points to the the, I guess, the confusion, the moral confusion, you know, around this whole topic that.
00:28:51:10 – 00:29:23:29
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Okay, you like black art deco? Okay. You like Judy Garland? Okay. So what, you know, and, but but the meanness, the meanness that sometimes is part of the gay community, a lot of people are naive about that. I think, you know, and don’t don’t really realize the full extent of it. And when you when you talk to people who have been in the community, you can sometimes see why they wanted to leave because people were really it wasn’t really that jolly.
00:29:23:29 – 00:29:47:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It wasn’t really that happy, you know, of an experience. Maybe they want a nicer friend group, you know that again, you know, ends up being a part of the story. But it’s complicated because those are your friends. And, you know, there’s just a lot of complications to it. But I did think it was important for people to hear from your perspective, you feel this is a serious enough risk.
00:29:47:17 – 00:30:16:23
AJ Benjamin
It is. And it’s not it’s not everybody. There are plenty of people out there who are just like, hey, I’m doing my thing. You do your thing, and that’s fine. We don’t have to agree. But there is a political arm, you know, in, you know, certain political parties in education, in, you know, a lot of the, the, the, the counseling and psych psychology community that are really militantly adamant that this is not cannot be you won’t be happy this way.
00:30:16:23 – 00:30:36:25
AJ Benjamin
This is a self-destructive thing to to not act on same sex attraction. And if you try to say, well, no, there’s there’s another side to the story. Suddenly the tolerance fades away, you know? And there’s another thing again, I don’t want to paint with a too broad a brush. There’s plenty of people that just really don’t care if they if they want to, they’re just not going to.
00:30:37:00 – 00:31:07:13
AJ Benjamin
They’re not going to listen to it. And that’s fine. I you know, we don’t have to reframe. We do however we want. You know, God gave us free will, but there is that political arm, you see, with all this laws they’re trying to pass, you know, trying to push it into law that, you know, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, without getting too much into, you know, the transgender thing, the, bans on so-called, you know, conversion therapy, even though it’s not really that’s not really what it’s called to try to legislate that, that that this is somehow a bad thing without any proof that it is.
00:31:07:13 – 00:31:34:19
AJ Benjamin
And without listening to people’s stories like mine and others who say now had a different experience and what the social narrative is, is pushing, you know, what the mainstream media’s pushing. So the only way to stop that is to, be forceful against it. And that’s what you’re that’s what why? You know, why, you know, you know, there there is a lot of hesitance to come out, to be able to tell their stories and the reasons why I wrote the book.
00:31:34:19 – 00:31:51:18
AJ Benjamin
And it’s gets the story out there. And, you know, if you don’t believe it, don’t believe it. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s, you know, it’s it’s okay. I’m not it’s I, I know what’s true. I know what happened to me. I’m telling my experience and that’s my experience, you know? And you know, that wasn’t your experience.
00:31:51:18 – 00:31:57:18
AJ Benjamin
Okay. But don’t try to to don’t try to take that away from my experience.
00:31:57:21 – 00:32:18:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. That this is your experience and you’re telling you’re telling this is what happened to you and you. Somebody should not be trying to take it away from you. The fact that they are trying to take it away from you is suggestive that they’re not really as confident as perhaps they claim to be. You know that that one, guys, one guy’s story was going to knock the whole thing down.
00:32:18:14 – 00:32:43:21
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well, logically speaking, yes, it does knock the whole thing down because their claim is that no one ever changes. And I’m like, okay, great. I only need one counterexample to disprove that. Hello, I have a bunch of counter. So there, you know, so and so then they then they get mad and so on and so forth. But I mean, I, I just, I would just implore people to reconsider your presuppositions here.
00:32:43:21 – 00:33:13:02
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, that AJ is telling you a credible story. Other of my guests have told a credible story. This is what happened to them. This is how they behaved at one point. This is how they behave and feel now to to go from persistent same sex attraction to something else and where the something else includes being happily married for 20 years and fathering children, that’s not something you can easily fake.
00:33:13:04 – 00:33:35:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That’s something that requires persistence in in life and daily life and acting and and so there’s a credibility to the fact that we’re finding these people kind of all over the place who have made this journey. And, hey, do you have any last words that you’d like to share with the Ruth Institute audience?
00:33:35:27 – 00:33:56:00
AJ Benjamin
Yeah, I just want to first of all, thank you for being on the kind of on the, the, the, the, the front here on this culture war, because it is important and if it were not for people like you and your listeners, we couldn’t get stories like this out, you know, in any fashion. And there’s, there’s lots of great organizations that are doing similar things to what you’re doing.
00:33:56:00 – 00:34:19:15
AJ Benjamin
And I am just really grateful to, to for this vehicle to be there, you know, for, for you for the work that you do. And I’m sure you get all sorts of, pushback and all sorts of things from, from, you know, what you do. And that’s, that’s what happens when you’re when you’re fighting the good fight. So, I would just say I keep standing in the truth, you know, keep getting the word out there that God has a plan.
00:34:19:15 – 00:34:36:15
AJ Benjamin
God loves all of us and has a plan for all of our lives. And he wants us to be happy. And I, I think that, you’re getting that word out there, about. And this is and, of course, you know, the the same sex attraction thing. It’s only I know a very small portion of what you do.
00:34:36:28 – 00:34:50:17
AJ Benjamin
But you’re really fighting that whole cultural battle, you know, with the, the sex, the sexual revolution, gender ideology, that sort of thing. So I say, yeah, I appreciate it. I will pray for you. Please pray for me.
00:34:50:20 – 00:35:22:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well, I appreciate that very much. And yes, we’re involved in a number of different issues, but they’re really different fronts in the same war. And, and the, and the basic war is, you know, traditional Christian sexual morality is good for people. They our organization we are teaching is exclusively Catholic, but our audience is not exclusively Catholic because the, the, the teachings that are embodied most, most completely and most clearly within the Catholic Church are universally true.
00:35:22:27 – 00:35:46:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And they will bless anyone who will embrace them, whether at the individual level or at the social and cultural level. And, I’m proud of the people who follow us, the people across the religious spectrum who follow us, who are being blessed by this type of interview, you know, and I’m I’m proud that I’ve interviewed people like you who were some kind of Protestant or Pentecostal or mainline whatever, you know, just different.
00:35:46:15 – 00:36:08:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Different, superficially different religions. But our Lord is working on all of us, you know, and I really do believe I really do believe he’s trying to bring us together, around these issues that seem seem to be so, so divisive, but actually there if you go, if you go to the heart of the matter, it’s actually a unifying issue.
00:36:08:21 – 00:36:29:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So, E.J., then I just want to I want to just reiterate that this is the book it’s called When the Son Frees You A Catholic Man’s Journey of Healing from Same Sex Attraction and it’s available from ten publishing. And I want to encourage everyone to get this book, but directly from the publisher, that’s always the best for the author and for the publisher.
00:36:29:22 – 00:36:45:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And I want to thank you, RJ, I want to thank you so much for your candor, for your outstanding writing, and for your your for your fidelity in telling the truth about your story. Thank you so much for being my guest on today’s episode of The Doctor J. Show.
00:36:45:02 – 00:36:46:24
AJ Benjamin
Thank you for inviting me. I pleasure.
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About the Ruth Institute
The Ruth Institute is a global non-profit organization, leading an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love.
Jennifer Roback Morse has a Ph.D. in economics and has taught at Yale and George Mason University. She is the author of The Sexual State and Love and Economics – It Takes a Family to Raise a Village.
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