Why do some people experience same-sex attraction—and how should faithful Christians respond? In this episode of the Dr. J Show, clinical sexologist Floyd Godfrey draws on decades of experience counseling clients who experience same-sex attraction and want to live lives of chastity and integrity.
Dr. Godfrey discusses how trauma, emotional wounds, and unmet developmental needs can shape sexual desires. He explains the difference between a person’s feelings and their identity, and how healing involves both psychological insight and spiritual maturity. Rather than pushing an agenda, he walks us through how real change happens—with honesty, accountability, and deep human connection.
This conversation pushes back on the cultural narrative that says “once gay, always gay,” and raises serious questions about efforts to ban talk therapy for those who seek it. If you’re a parent, pastor, counselor, or simply someone concerned about the truth and the well-being of others, you won’t want to miss this important episode.
Subscribe to our newsletter to get this amazing report: Refuting the Top 5 Gay Myths https://ruthinstitute.org/refute-the-top-five-myths/
Have a question or a comment? Leave it in the comments, and we’ll get back to you!
00:00 – Introduction
00:07 – The Healing and Recovery Workbook
04:12 – Understanding Same-Sex Attraction and Therapy
06:42 – Navigating Therapy for Minors
14:10 – The Debate on Conversion Therapy
18:04 – Challenges with Professional Licensing
26:29 – Finding Hope Amidst Adversity
29:29 – Corruption of the Licensing Boards
40:05 – Where you can find Floyd Godfrey
41:15 – Words of Advice
Floyd Godfrey, Ph.D., is a Clinical Sexologist, Licensed Professional Counselor, and Certified Sex Addiction Specialist Supervisor with over 20 years of experience in the field of mental health and human sexuality. He holds advanced degrees from Arizona State University, Ottawa University, and the International Institute for Clinical Sexology. Dr. Godfrey specializes in working with men and adolescents navigating issues related to same-sex attraction, sexual addiction, and identity development.
He previously led a national faith-based ministry for men seeking sexual integrity, and has trained therapists, clergy, and parents in offering compassionate and ethical care. Known for integrating scientific understanding with a Christian worldview, Dr. Godfrey also works as a mental health consultant and educator. He brings both clinical depth and pastoral sensitivity to one of the most complex topics in our culture today.
Transcript
(Please note the transcript is auto-generated and likely contains errors)
Interview Transcript: Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse & Floyd Godfrey
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:29:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So. So there are a couple things that I want to be sure we cover. One is I want you to talk to people a little a little bit about your your work, but that you created your healing and recovery workbook perspective for young men with sexualized attachments. When I read this, you know, it’s an easy read because a lot of it is space to take your notes and so on and so forth.
00:00:29:09 – 00:00:41:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Tell people a little bit about this book. Who is this book designed for? The people use it individually and groups. Yeah. Where did you envision this getting used and where is it, in fact, being used?
00:00:41:08 – 00:00:44:20
Floyd Godfrey
The those are good questions. It’s about 5 or 6 questions in there.
00:00:44:27 – 00:00:45:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, sorry.
00:00:45:28 – 00:01:11:29
Floyd Godfrey
That’s okay. I, over the years, I would have youth, young adults, even adult men I was working with who had confusion about their sexuality. And and so I would cop different, pages at different articles, and I’d create worksheets for them to help them see where that confusion was coming from, or help them understand why this attraction or why that attraction or what.
00:01:12:01 – 00:01:34:27
Floyd Godfrey
And ultimately, the the teenagers were the most confused. You know, it’s hard to find articles and and so I put that book together, all these different, research articles and a lot of it’s not even my concepts and put them into a very easy to understand, sort of a layered workbook that teenagers could understand, but adults could understand too.
00:01:35:00 – 00:02:02:24
Floyd Godfrey
And so that that was the purpose of the book and sexualize attachments, the meaning there it is that when you have confusion about your attractions or you have unwanted same sex attractions or bisexual attractions, things of that nature, that there’s been some attachment piece that got sexualized, some attachment need, some attachment wound, some attachment deficit, emotional turmoil that got sexualized.
00:02:02:24 – 00:02:30:09
Floyd Godfrey
And so the book is how do you identify what those things were for you? So I used it a lot with teenagers and then adults, young adults. They found it very easy to read. It’s written for a teenager. So, you know, each chapter is only about four pages long. So it’s easy to understand. It’s very succinct. And, I know that there are some support organizations using the workbook for adult men and online groups.
00:02:30:12 – 00:02:52:08
Floyd Godfrey
I know therapists who use it, who use it. And I also I’ve had individuals I had a teenager call me from Seattle the other day, and he says, Floyd, my parents don’t know. I’m calling you. I’m 16. I’ve been reading this book. This really helped me and tried to answer his questions, you know, briefly. So people use it individually.
00:02:52:11 – 00:03:11:14
Floyd Godfrey
You could use it with your clergy. I was over at the, Phoenix Archdiocese and doing a presentation over there, and I know some of the priests and deacons were using it with some of the people in the congregation, because it’s just so simple. And then there’s questions at the end of each chapter so you can have the discussion together.
00:03:11:16 – 00:03:30:19
Floyd Godfrey
Well, let’s talk about question number one. And so then your you and your priest are sort of on the same page. Okay. I ought to be working on this or I can see how this applies. And now you have somebody on your side that sort of gets you a little bit better. And then you have somebody to help you move forward into healing directions, a process of healing.
00:03:30:22 – 00:03:52:03
Floyd Godfrey
So I think, you know, I’ve seen it being used in groups and therapy, setting some therapists have approached me because, you know, everything we’re talking about, it’s really difficult to find information. And how do you help someone who wants help? And that’s the other that we haven’t talked about, but, Right. Yeah. And so it sort of is a treatment plan.
00:03:52:04 – 00:04:07:26
Floyd Godfrey
This is the treatment plan I would use. There’s about, you know, 12 chapters in there. That would be a line of a treatment plan that I would use. And, and so even therapists have used it as a way of sort of outlining, here’s the direction we’re going to go. Here’s what we’re going to work on for your process of healing.
00:04:07:29 – 00:04:11:25
Floyd Godfrey
And, and yeah, so those are the ways I know that it’s being used.
00:04:12:02 – 00:04:35:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, yes. And you know, what’s interesting about a process like this is that you’ve identified some core issues, but every person’s story is a little bit different. And so we’re they’re doing their journaling. They’re able to say, well, this is this is how it happened for me. It’s not a it’s not a causal thing. It’s not like, a germ is causing a disease or something like that.
00:04:35:12 – 00:04:53:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It’s not that kind of cause. Social causes are more complicated and, and and multivariate, I guess you’d say. Yeah. You know, so common themes, you see common themes which you identify here, but then each person’s particular story is a little different.
00:04:53:11 – 00:05:16:06
Floyd Godfrey
Yeah, absolutely. And changing nowadays I think that, so there’s in my mind there’s about 12 common themes. And that would cause the same sex attraction or sexual confusion piece. And, you know, some, some people have a lot, maybe all of them, all 12. And I’ve worked with, you know, people who maybe they have just a few of those of those pieces.
00:05:16:06 – 00:05:38:19
Floyd Godfrey
And but either way, you know, and I would also say with that, Jennifer, I think that it’s really important if you’re a therapist, my objective is going to be to work on those issues, not to try to change somebody’s. So the attractions might change along the way, and a person could choose to to go a different direction than the attractions are taking them.
00:05:38:21 – 00:05:57:05
Floyd Godfrey
But but if you never work on the undercurrents of what caused it to begin with, you’ll never experience any kind of change. So I encourage my clients, we’re not going to focus on trying to change you. This is not a conversion therapy process. This is this is a healing process for whatever was happening underneath. We’ll focus on those things.
00:05:57:08 – 00:06:00:27
Floyd Godfrey
And then that allows you to make different choices and move different. Right?
00:06:00:29 – 00:06:21:27
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. Because you’re no longer up, you’re no longer being driven by whatever the deficit was or whatever the compulsion was. You’re no longer being driven. You’re a little bit more in command of yourself. I’ve seen that are our friend Carolyn Pellet was the first one to kind of point that out to me, you know, in some different research that she had done, that people felt better even before anything changed.
00:06:21:27 – 00:06:59:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, just the fact that something that they had a sense of some progress being made and, and some understanding of their of their situation. I want to talk to you. I want to say something. Spend some time talking about the episode that you had that had to do with professional licensure. But before we get to that there, just I want to ask you, if you wouldn’t mind, sharing a little bit of insight for parents or loved ones who are concerned about maybe, you know, a young person in your family who’s same sex attracted, are there are there circumstances under which you would recommend that a parent bring a child
00:06:59:10 – 00:07:12:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
for therapy, or where you would recommend that they not bring a child for therapy? Could you just talk through that a little bit? Because I and I have a special reason for asking this question. If you don’t mind.
00:07:12:16 – 00:07:14:04
Floyd Godfrey
You just talk about minors.
00:07:14:06 – 00:07:18:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Talk about it just having to do with parents bringing minor child.
00:07:18:23 – 00:07:40:22
Floyd Godfrey
Bringing a minor child to therapy is a little precarious, because they’re still developing. They don’t really know who they are, but at the same time, they’re not going to get a lot out of therapy if they don’t want to be there. And so when do you bring a kid in? Well, for sure, if a kid says, I need help, I really want help.
00:07:40:25 – 00:08:04:27
Floyd Godfrey
Definitely. I would do that. I would bring them. If they don’t want help and they’re pushing away from you, and I might still go to therapy, but I’d be working on the relationship, you know, how do you get into some therapeutic process? So their walls can come down so they can feel safe with you? I that would be the primary focus there.
00:08:04:29 – 00:08:24:10
Floyd Godfrey
I remember literally I had a teenage boy coming in to see me, and I remember looking around the corner because he wasn’t they weren’t following me down the hall. So I looked around and I literally saw the kid’s fingers on the corner of the wall, and his dad is trying to pull him to come down the hall to come into my office.
00:08:24:12 – 00:08:41:08
Floyd Godfrey
And so I walked over and I said, okay, hold on a second here. I said, young man, I and it seems like you don’t want to be here. Will you go wait in the lobby, please? And of course, he was happy to. And I met with dad for 5 or 10 minutes and I said, I think this is going to be a complete waste of your time.
00:08:41:08 – 00:09:05:12
Floyd Godfrey
I don’t he doesn’t want to be here. He doesn’t want help it. So how can you and I work together to strengthen the relationship between the two of you? Because your bond with him will be the porch light when everything around him is dark and his life takes some bad turns. You want him to come home. You want him to want your help.
00:09:05:12 – 00:09:23:02
Floyd Godfrey
You. He’s not in a place right now that he wants your help. So how do you work on that? So I don’t know the purpose of your question, but those are some thoughts I have about it. And I think, I think you could do more damage by forcing someone to try to go to therapy.
00:09:23:05 – 00:09:30:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. Try it. And what did that did how did that dad react when you said that to him?
00:09:30:11 – 00:09:59:05
Floyd Godfrey
You’re probably right. I said, yeah, I’m right, I’m right. If you if you if you love your son, let him go. And then and then let’s focus everything we have, just me and you. Over the next couple months, let’s work on how you find an inherent relationship of value and worth. Even if he decides to go into the gay lifestyle or whatever, he needs to know you love him or he’ll never come back.
00:09:59:07 – 00:10:26:23
Floyd Godfrey
Do you know, Jennifer, that how many how many youth I’ve talked to who have said to me, yeah, I went to the gay club or yeah, I went into the gay lifestyle and Floyd, it was the only place I’d ever felt any acceptance before. But like, how do you respond to that? Well, you have to start creating loving, healthy places for people to land inside your church, inside your home, inside your friendships.
00:10:26:25 – 00:10:30:13
Floyd Godfrey
Otherwise, you’re going to be finding at other places.
00:10:30:16 – 00:10:53:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, yes. And, I’ll tell you why I ask this question, because it does show up in the data. You know that a lot of people are helped by so-called conversion therapy. You know, if you ask people, did you ever go for counseling to help change your sexual orientation, that that’s what they call the question about sexual or about sexual orientation change efforts?
00:10:53:13 – 00:11:21:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well, a lot of people are helped by it. But the one category where it’s unreliable, is, is if you went as a youth, if you went as a minor, and if you went to a religious counselor. Right. And so I think that’s a proxy for the the scenario that you just laid out, you know, and so I’ve had other I’ve asked other therapist this question because this is the scenario where the, the proponents of banning therapy, this is where they have a case.
00:11:21:22 – 00:11:42:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right? And this is their case. Their case is that it’s damaging. You know, you’re you’re you’re you’re harming this boy, bringing him in there. And I want people to see that the Christian counselors know what you’re talking about. But we are looking at it from a different angle and drawing a different conclusion. So yes, yes, comment on that, comment on that, if you would.
00:11:42:05 – 00:11:42:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Floyd.
00:11:42:23 – 00:12:05:18
Floyd Godfrey
You know, I think that they have a point. If parents, clergy, anybody if you’re forcing a kid to do something he doesn’t want to do or he’s not ready to do or, you’re only making it worse, you’re making or creating more harm. And I think that that has definitely happened before. Yeah, I so, so that’s that’s definitely a problem.
00:12:05:18 – 00:12:33:08
Floyd Godfrey
And I also think you have counselors out there who don’t know how to work with adolescents and, and you know, and that’s kind of a problem. So so if you go in and your counselor doesn’t know how to relate to you, and you know, that’s not helping anything either, I had the, a kid that I knew who had come in to see me, and in one session he’s in tears and he’s I been I taught him just briefly on the whiteboard in my office.
00:12:33:11 – 00:12:55:10
Floyd Godfrey
Here’s what often, sometimes will cause a same sex attraction to appear. And he said, Floyd. He says all of it. That all happened to me. That’s he says, why didn’t my other counselor tell me that? I said, well, what do you mean? He says, well, my other I went to my other council for like 2 or 3 years, the only one my parents would pay for because he was a religious counselor guy.
00:12:55:10 – 00:13:12:28
Floyd Godfrey
And he says he never told me any of this stuff. Well, so here I am. Years and years later, I ran into that counselor and I didn’t reference the client, but I said, hey, do you ever have clients that have this particular problem? What do you do? And he says, he says, you can’t really help those kind of people.
00:13:12:28 – 00:13:41:20
Floyd Godfrey
It’s there’s nothing you can do about it. And I thought, oh my goodness. And so we, you know, I was professional and we continued the conversation, but I thought to myself, this is a problem. So if you’re taking your kid to a counselor that not only doesn’t know how to work with youth, but also has no idea what causes sexual confusion issues and same sex attraction or whatever pornography addiction, they’re probably making it worse and they can’t relate to the kid.
00:13:41:20 – 00:13:44:13
Floyd Godfrey
So it’s it’s definitely a problem.
00:13:44:15 – 00:14:02:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. And this reminds me, I think it was Linda Seiler who explained to me, you know, that that some branches within Christianity have have an attitude that this is all about sin. It sins in sin and you can’t do anything about it. You just have to grin and bear it kind of a thing. And yeah, that’s not going to be helpful.
00:14:02:01 – 00:14:02:29
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I thought.
00:14:02:29 – 00:14:09:24
Floyd Godfrey
Well, and I also think, Jennifer, I ran into, I can tell you stories, so many stories, but I, I’m sure you.
00:14:09:24 – 00:14:10:19
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Can.
00:14:10:21 – 00:14:31:22
Floyd Godfrey
I had a kid from, who came from West side of town about an hour drive to see me. And on the first session, there’s so many emotional wounds and relationship wounds and father wounds and abuse, victim of abuse. And and, the pastor called me later to ask, you know, how it was going with the exorcism, and and I said, what?
00:14:31:26 – 00:15:01:24
Floyd Godfrey
Can you tell me what you mean? I don’t know what you mean by that. And he clarified that his expectation as the pastor was that I would be exercising this, this young man to get the homosexual demons out of him. And, and, and I said, well, and I was very respectful. I said, but that’s not my role. I don’t, I don’t I honestly don’t know much about exorcism to begin with and I, I, I’m not a, I’m not a clergy, I just, I so my role would be to work on emotional issues.
00:15:01:24 – 00:15:22:00
Floyd Godfrey
And I can see many issues that would have caused him to be confused and sort of gone off of path. And so those are the things I would work on, and I’ll let you do the spiritual piece with him. And long story short, the kid never came back. You know, the pastor was so disappointed that I wouldn’t be taking, more of an exorcist sort of view.
00:15:22:00 – 00:15:47:01
Floyd Godfrey
So I think you have some people like that out there, too, Jennifer, that may have created this perception, that that that’s conversion therapy or that it’s some, weird, you know, and I’m not going to say that perhaps trauma doesn’t create an inlet for the adversary to get into your life and create problems. But I also wouldn’t say that an exorcism is how to cure that.
00:15:47:01 – 00:15:50:18
Floyd Godfrey
Or, so you have a lot of those things.
00:15:50:20 – 00:16:13:24
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. What you’ve really got going on here is that that that is exactly the sort of scenario that the opponents of conversion therapy would say, to say, we need to ban this, but the problem is what they go and ban is licensed therapist who are talking to people, not people doing shock therapy or voodoo or something, you know.
00:16:13:25 – 00:16:36:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah, yeah. And so to me, the story you just related is not at all a case for banning therapy or even regulating therapy. It’s a case for better information. It’s a case for a more educated consumer. Right. Because at some point, you know, a lot of parents end up looking for advice. A lot of adults end up looking for advice for themselves and so on.
00:16:36:24 – 00:16:50:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so I just think having a more realistic conversation publicly without all of the hysterics about whether you’re going to lose your license or, you know, if you say the wrong thing or if you step over the line, you know, that that, that kind of thing.
00:16:50:15 – 00:17:10:01
Floyd Godfrey
You also have some publicity. You also have some marketing and some some propaganda that’s gone out there. I, I remember back in the days of Governor Christie in New Jersey, and they had a court case out there, and they had a, the, I can’t remember the name of. They labeled them as like, an ex-gay therapy, therapy.
00:17:10:03 – 00:17:29:18
Floyd Godfrey
It was no, no, no, it wasn’t the Johnny case. It was it was a client who went and testified in court that she had been to a conversion camp, and that they had done shock therapy on her and all this stuff and how harmful it was. Well, a year rolled around later and they found that she had the perpetrators and all been made up.
00:17:29:18 – 00:17:40:13
Floyd Godfrey
It was all a lie. But of course, the papers didn’t report that other reported as if she went to a conversion therapy camp and it destroyed her psychologically. And it was all fake.
00:17:40:15 – 00:18:04:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right? Right. Yeah. That’s Sam Brinton for you right there. But that’s another whole topic. Yeah, but what I, what I would like to talk about, though, that this has been extremely helpful. And I know that a lot of people are going to be blessed by what you’ve just said, just by the the calm clarity of the conversation that we’re having about this and the understanding that this is a nuanced, subtle thing with a lot of moving parts, and you have to be discerning about it.
00:18:04:20 – 00:18:25:27
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But you did have a legal problem or a professional licensing problem. And I’d like you to, to to tell us about that, because it overlaps somewhat with this. Although there are other elements in addition to the therapy modalities. There’s a there’s another whole set of things going on. So it as I understand that there was a challenge to your license.
00:18:26:00 – 00:18:40:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And, I listened to an interview that you did with the American Association of Christian Counselors, in which we’ll post a link to a case. People want more information. Tell us, what was this challenge to your license all about? Floyd.
00:18:40:07 – 00:19:11:01
Floyd Godfrey
Yes. So just to clarify for the listeners, there was never any legal issue. So there was a, we had a former, employee very dishonest, on some level, maybe deranged, delusional, made up a story that I’d had some inappropriate sexual interaction with him, and, he filed that story with the licensing board. Well, my attorney didn’t think that.
00:19:11:01 – 00:19:30:12
Floyd Godfrey
You know, it’s it was ridiculous. There’s no evidence of anything that you thought would get thrown out. But about a week before, things were happening, he called me and said, Floyd, you have a problem. He says there are people on the licensing board that hate you. He said, I don’t know what you’ve done. Have you done something to offend them?
00:19:30:12 – 00:20:01:00
Floyd Godfrey
And of course, I don’t even know anybody on the licensing board. And, come to find out, he told them privately they wanted to publicly punish me. They thought I was a fake, that I discriminated against Christians because of my values. This, that the other end. And he says, I don’t know if you want to go through these interviews and do what they’re asking you to do because they’re going to go back and they’re going to look at private, embarrassing things from your younger days and smear you all over online.
00:20:01:00 – 00:20:22:27
Floyd Godfrey
So, you know, my wife and I talked about it. I had thought about retiring my license anyway from clinical work and, and, she and I both decided our marriage wasn’t worth that. And the the headache, the emotional turmoil. I would just retire my license and continue on. Well, the board didn’t. They didn’t like that. It sort of took the play away.
00:20:22:29 – 00:20:53:05
Floyd Godfrey
And so they turned it around and they revoked my license and publicly, said that I had been involved in unreason and sexual misconduct. Of course, the whole thing was fake. And I, there was never any evidence of that. I went later, after I went, I took the polygraph and I proved I was innocent. I did a psychosexual assessment with a sex offender counselor who showed that I, you know, it was, I didn’t fit a profile at all of somebody who does those things.
00:20:53:05 – 00:21:12:02
Floyd Godfrey
And. And then I had the executive team at the agency where I work. They went and interviewed every single employee and some former employees, and no one had ever witnessed or been a part of anything inappropriate at any time. You know, in 30 years in social services, this, you know, never you had, so so I did all that.
00:21:12:05 – 00:21:40:13
Floyd Godfrey
But, of course, the hoax was out there. And so, you know, publicly being propagandized or whatever. And the information gay activists picked up on that. And suddenly I have journalists, gay activists, journalists calling our office, insisting that we must be doing shock therapy, that we must be doing conversion therapy. And, my partners were very concerned.
00:21:40:13 – 00:22:09:25
Floyd Godfrey
It was rattling the therapists. We had to file a cease and desist against one of the journalists to stop harassing our staff. And it’s, at this point, it’s all settled down. And I think most people who know me know that it was a hoax. The there was never any, you know, you would think if something like that were real, there would be a police report or there would be, you know, multiple complaints to the agency supervisors that he’d been doing this or that, but nothing.
00:22:09:25 – 00:22:33:20
Floyd Godfrey
There was never anything. And it’s, you know, they they think they won and they quietly slither away. So that’s what happened there. And I’m just not sure, Jennifer, because I have done so much publicly and at this point planned to do more. You know, we met each other in, in, in Eastern Europe talking about these topics. I don’t want to stop doing those things.
00:22:33:22 – 00:22:54:24
Floyd Godfrey
So in discussion with my wife in prayer, with our pastor, you know, determined that that I don’t know that a license is needed. And I’m not sure I want to put a target back on my back. I may be able to do more by by speaking, consulting. I’m still helping clients on a coaching consulting basis. I’m still speaking and educating and,
00:22:54:26 – 00:23:17:16
Floyd Godfrey
And so if I can get rid of the target and keep moving forward, I think that’s what God wants me to do. But I was shocked. You know, between you and I, I was shocked. And and it wasn’t just the licensing board. This, you know, the the kingpin of the hoax, the mastermind of it all. Apparently, we found out he’d been planning it a couple of years.
00:23:17:16 – 00:23:34:21
Floyd Godfrey
My partner found out had been in the works for a while, and, he went so far as to call the church we were attending to tell them that I was a pedophile, or I should never be alone with kids, you know, all these different things. And of course, the church is is all in upheaval and they’re nervous.
00:23:34:21 – 00:23:54:15
Floyd Godfrey
And they asked us to step away to avoid public publicity to the church. And, so the shock of it all, not just the licensing, but also losing our church support friends, you know, people that didn’t know they were just being convinced by all this propaganda. It was, kind of painful.
00:23:54:20 – 00:23:58:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Difficult, I’m sure. Yeah.
00:23:58:12 – 00:24:21:19
Floyd Godfrey
I went to a men’s retreat at the end of all of it, and, I remember I was just processing some of my own grief over the loss of church and friends and the dishonesty of people and the licensing and, and there was an 18 year old young man in that in our men’s group. And, he just made a very simple comment to me.
00:24:21:19 – 00:24:49:21
Floyd Godfrey
He says, Floyd, he says, I know you’re in grief. You’re feeling bad. He says, but but look at Jesus. They accused him of stuff that he didn’t do. Everybody told him he was wrong, and he was right, and, and and Jesus just stood his ground. Sometimes he didn’t respond. Says, you’re not better than Jesus. Just pray. And, it just took me back.
00:24:49:24 – 00:25:14:20
Floyd Godfrey
And he is right. He’s right. So it’s been painful. I think if we are biblically sound, things aren’t going to get better until Jesus comes back. And so my new mantra has been, how do I stand strong not just knowing who I am, but standing for biblical concepts and principles, helping people amidst all the turmoil that’s going on around us?
00:25:14:22 – 00:25:18:27
Floyd Godfrey
It’s not it’s not going to lift until Jesus comes back and lifts it.
00:25:19:00 – 00:25:25:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So the guy who orchestrated all of this was he himself a gay activist?
00:25:25:17 – 00:25:51:25
Floyd Godfrey
No, no. He. So, he actually, in retrospect, I’ve talked to three of my supervisors at the agency where we work. We’ve sat down. In retrospect, he fits every category of narcissistic personality disorder. So he had this pathological need to be important to feel important to, you know, even in staff meetings, he was always trying to garner all the attention.
00:25:51:25 – 00:26:13:29
Floyd Godfrey
And, he had been sued a couple of years before that for for doing some things in his office that were not appropriate. And we had to get caught up in that and trying to help him and, I really think it was more about his woundedness and not being a very stable person, than it would be about being an activist.
00:26:14:02 – 00:26:16:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But the activists glommed on to it.
00:26:16:25 – 00:26:39:08
Floyd Godfrey
The activist glommed on to it. Yeah. I was like, I don’t think he appreciated the domino effect he created. Because, you know, he did what he did and then the church did what they did. And then the licensing board did what they did, and it just became this whole domino effect. And, you know, my wife and I deciding, how do we survive all of this, these lies and all of the betrayal and propaganda?
00:26:39:10 – 00:27:03:11
Floyd Godfrey
A lot of study around the story of Joseph falsely accused by part of his wife for something he didn’t do, and went to prison and sat in prison for a few years at least. And, and and I’m sure felt the grief of betrayal and loss and lies and misinformation and I just I’ve been asking God and praying over that.
00:27:03:12 – 00:27:35:08
Floyd Godfrey
How did he survive that? Give me the Spirit of Joseph to survive this. And at the end of the story, God used all of that to promote him and promote his cause. So that’s one thing that stood out for me. Perhaps, God will use this to promote the cause in one way or another. And so I’m trying to have hope in that because I think through pain and suffering, you know, and many times, you know, the Old Testament, Daniel in the lion’s den, Daniel was not saved from the lion’s den.
00:27:35:10 – 00:27:37:09
Floyd Godfrey
He was saved in the lion’s den.
00:27:37:09 – 00:27:41:25
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
The lion’s den. Right. And it’s a fact.
00:27:41:28 – 00:27:50:01
Floyd Godfrey
The boys that were thrown into the fire, Meshach and Abednego, came from, you know, I mean.
00:27:50:03 – 00:27:50:21
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
We don’t you.
00:27:50:21 – 00:28:26:11
Floyd Godfrey
Mean they weren’t saved from the fire? They were saved in the fire. And so I have to consider, I guess I’m in the fire. I’m in the lion’s den. And can I trust God to pain and difficulty? And that God would bring a purpose from pain and difficulty. And I would tell my clients that, too. If you’re a Christian and you’re struggling with sexual confusion, or you don’t understand why this has happened to you, or why you have these attractions, or why you’re addicted or whatever is going on, you know, trust God, he he’s true.
00:28:26:11 – 00:28:43:13
Floyd Godfrey
Everything you said, he knows how he’s designed you. So trust him through the pain and keep asking questions. Help me know God, help me understand God. Help me get through this. Help me to know and learn what you want me to learn and how to grow, to get through the pain and difficulty.
00:28:43:16 – 00:29:03:29
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Do you know, it’s amazing to me how often the point of redemptive suffering comes up in my conversation to the people. Okay, so where there’s children of divorce, where there’s people who’ve survived abortion, and people who’ve been through the kind of professional mill that you’ve been through, you know, it’s just one thing after another that the,
00:29:04:01 – 00:29:24:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Jesus, Jesus did not promise us utopia. He did not promise heaven on earth. He promised just persecution. He told us that was going to happen. But Saint Paul tried to show us, you know, that we’re that we’re that how we become part of the body of Christ. You know that that that we’re making up in our own body was lacking in the body of Christ.
00:29:24:08 – 00:29:47:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, that’s kind of crazy when you first think about it. But it’s but it’s very deep, actually. Now I am I want to go back to the licensing board, though, because it sounds like from your description of what happened, this former employee had his own agenda. The didn’t was it really particularly oh, let’s stop that conversion therapy or let’s stop this gay anti-gay bigot or something.
00:29:47:21 – 00:30:03:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That wasn’t really what it was for him. But somehow that got triggered within the licensing board. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about what you encountered at the licensing board and what you thought their, thought process was.
00:30:03:11 – 00:30:27:23
Floyd Godfrey
Well, well, clearly his, his directive or his motivation was, to, to he wanted to start his own office. You know, all of this came out after he left, you know, the day after he left, I saw, you know, this whole story came up, and, so clearly there was narcissistic tendencies there from him, the licensing board.
00:30:27:23 – 00:30:50:25
Floyd Godfrey
At first, Jennifer, I assumed that they were objective and they just would want to hear the truth. And and I think my attorney felt that, too. Well, there’s no evidence is ridiculous. And, what surprised me was when he told me he was having private conversations with them, and, and I sort of think I know who he’s talking about.
00:30:50:25 – 00:31:15:17
Floyd Godfrey
The person in charge. And they told him, I quote, Floyd Godfrey is a fake, that we’re going to publicly punish him, that, he discriminates against LGBTQ, that, he’s a fraud, you know, and he listed some things that they had said. He says, Floyd, why are they saying these things? And of course, my attorney is not a Christian.
00:31:15:19 – 00:31:39:03
Floyd Godfrey
He is just sort of an agnostic person. And so so that was the first shock that clearly they were not going to be objective and they were going to pursue me for other reasons. And this was like an opportunity to do it. And, so and, you know, the other interesting aspect of this is that the, the accusation itself was from like 8 or 9 years prior.
00:31:39:03 – 00:31:58:06
Floyd Godfrey
So, you know, how do you find ways to prove your innocent from 8 or 9 years ago, which is another thing my attorney said, well, it should have been thrown out. There’s a statute of limitations of four years. Why are they even looking at this? He says they’re clearly prejudiced against you, and they’re going to find a way to crucify you publicly.
00:31:58:09 – 00:32:19:07
Floyd Godfrey
So, you know, and that was another reason to, and then and then I talked to a counselor almost identical to this situation that happened just a few years prior with someone I didn’t know. And a colleague said to me, Floyd, have you talked to Rick So-and-so? Because this almost exact thing happened to him and he went to the board.
00:32:19:09 – 00:32:46:09
Floyd Godfrey
I didn’t know him, so I called him and he says, Floyd. He says, yeah, he says, I this is and he told me what happened, the fake accusation. He says, I thought the board was going to be objective. I went and talked to them and did their interviews, did all of their stuff, he says. At the end of it, they came up with 42 new complaints against me because I was Christian and he was evangelical.
00:32:46:12 – 00:33:13:08
Floyd Godfrey
And he says, I was shocked, like, you know, because I said something this way was prejudice against people who are not Christian or that I wasn’t willing to work with this person or, you know, so he says, the worst thing I ever did was let them interrogate me. I gave up my license anyway. But now I have all these new accusations that are public that are completely false and fake.
00:33:13:10 – 00:33:34:16
Floyd Godfrey
And, you know, Jennifer, it’s you should know, your listeners should know licensing boards around the country are not legal entities. They’re not courts. Courts. They’re like an HOA for your neighborhood. They can do what they want to do. They can set their own rules. They can. There’s no legal oversight. They want you to think there is, but there’s not.
00:33:34:19 – 00:33:53:20
Floyd Godfrey
So the only alternatives to my situation and this other fellow situation is to sue the state. So that’s a pretty costly, maneuver. You know, you’re going to have to sue the state and actually take them to court. And how many tens of thousands of dollars later, you’ve proved your point. At what cost, you know. Right.
00:33:53:22 – 00:34:11:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so let’s clarify what the licensing board does. The licensing board is not a governmental entity, but they have the authority to like to give out licenses for counselors or therapists or whatever is that. Is that right? And so that’s been delegated to them by the state. Is that how that works?
00:34:11:03 – 00:34:16:25
Floyd Godfrey
That’s correct. So a licensing board, whatever licensing board it is, is appointed by your governor.
00:34:16:27 – 00:34:17:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I see.
00:34:17:17 – 00:34:40:28
Floyd Godfrey
So the governor appoints licensing board in our state. Our governor is very liberal. And the very day she took office, she vowed to start using pronouns, nouns, and, you know, all these on day one. So, you know, our licensing board was very liberal. I was just naive as to how liberal it was. Right and right. Yes, they make their own rules.
00:34:40:28 – 00:35:15:29
Floyd Godfrey
They set their own rules. Their job is to protect the public. Right. But at least in our state, they go way farther than just protecting the public. I mean, they’re harming people. I, I just talked two weeks ago to another clinic director down the road who runs a Christian counseling center. Well, he had called me and we had talked because he was threatened by the board that if he didn’t remove his Christian counseling labels from different parts of the website, that they were going to retract his license and everyone under him.
00:35:16:02 – 00:35:28:27
Floyd Godfrey
And of course, he and he says that you can’t that’s not legal. You can’t do that. She said, well, we can do whatever we want. He says, but that’s not that’s not right. That’s not it says, well, you need to do it our way. We’re the licensing board or, you know, and he went back and forth with them.
00:35:28:27 – 00:35:36:25
Floyd Godfrey
And finally he says, Floyd, I had to just take it off my website. I could I had to do what they wanted me to do. So lose.
00:35:36:25 – 00:36:04:26
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
The license or lose the license, right? Right. And part of the reason I wanted to say this, you know, and get this on tape, Floyd, is because the public does not understand how much mischief is being done by professional licensing boards and by these things that are not really government entities. They’re not nobody votes for them. They get appointed or they may be, you know, but they’re doing like in the in the trans business and the whole transgender thing.
00:36:05:00 – 00:36:27:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Medical licensing boards are doing a lot of damage in surance commissions are doing a lot of damage in my book, The Sexual State, the point that I make, the point that and I wrote this book in 2018, so I had never heard of you. And I’m transgender and wasn’t even a thing, you know. But but the the point of it is that the sexual revolution is being created by the state, and it’s being enforced by the state.
00:36:27:06 – 00:36:51:19
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It’s not some kind of organic thing where people go, oh, we have a problem. We got to solve the problem by taking away licenses from Christian counselors. No, that’s not how it’s working. You know, there’s a there’s a there’s a, a set of ideas that can’t stand on their own without being propped up constantly because they’re not they don’t work, you know, they fall down and and they need the state to prop them up all the time.
00:36:51:19 – 00:37:11:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And this is, this is a so many nooks and crannies of society have been infected with this. And this is an example of it, of how the sexual state is at work regulating and steering you away from some kinds of therapy and towards other kinds of therapy. You know, where are the libertarians when we need them? You know.
00:37:11:03 – 00:37:12:19
Floyd Godfrey
No.
00:37:12:21 – 00:37:29:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right? Right. Because this you know, why is this an either business to be monitoring what’s on the guy’s website? You know that, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. One last thing, one last thing on this complaint from your former employee, though. Were there ever any criminal charges filed against.
00:37:29:08 – 00:37:44:06
Floyd Godfrey
No, no. And that that’s the you know, I wish that some of the the friends and people who had been asking me, I wish they’d paid attention. Then I have to see. In fact, I remember asking, there was one fellow at the church we were at and I said, just let this play out legally. You’ll see, you’ll see.
00:37:44:06 – 00:38:05:09
Floyd Godfrey
And, and they couldn’t be patient enough. I think they were too worried about the negative PR. But but in the end, no, there was never a police report. There was wasn’t even an agency complaint to any of the supervisors. There was no legal action. Nothing. So if the if the, you know, and the board even went so far.
00:38:05:11 – 00:38:31:21
Floyd Godfrey
So when he filed this fake story, he told three colleagues who, by licensing standards, were required to write to the board and tell them, hey, so and so said this about Doctor Godfrey. So now you have the fake story and three colleagues who are also sending in, you know, hey, he told us this. So the board used even that and they turned it around and said, oh, there’s been four reports of sexual misbehavior by doctor.
00:38:31:23 – 00:38:44:09
Floyd Godfrey
So they find ways of trying to make it something. It’s not making it worse, making it look egregious. And I think they quietly murder professionally. Murder people like me.
00:38:44:11 – 00:38:45:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:45:01 – 00:38:54:12
Floyd Godfrey
And and nobody, nobody knows. And even in the church communities, people are wary. Be careful of em. Right. Because they’ve created all this propaganda.
00:38:54:15 – 00:39:20:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And none of the none of it would survive the scrutiny of an honest court of law. Never would survive that are never. And and, and on the other side of the equation, I mean, and the Catholic Church has been wracked with all kinds of problems. And so I’m very attuned to the problem of false accusations, but I’m also attuned to the fact that even when somebody has been convicted of something, sometimes people will go, oh, father, so-and-so was so nice.
00:39:20:08 – 00:39:43:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
He would never have done that, you know? And the victim is sitting there like, he, he, he was convicted of a felony or or he confessed. And and you’re still covering for him. What the heck? You know, it’s so there’s so much, so much confusion over these type of issues. So I, I’m, I want to say that I’m glad you had the chance to say what you have to say on my program.
00:39:43:16 – 00:40:00:27
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
If somebody wants to come after me, that’s fine. That’s fine. We’ll we’ll duke it out, you know? But at least you have the chance to tell your story here. And, and I do want people to see. I want people to see. This is how this operates, okay? This is why you can’t find the counselor you want. This is why you’re getting fake news.
00:40:00:27 – 00:40:04:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
This is why you’re getting fake information. This is. This is how this is working.
00:40:04:19 – 00:40:05:15
Floyd Godfrey
It’s true.
00:40:05:18 – 00:40:21:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So I, I knew, Floyd, that we were going to have a blast. I’m a man. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a while. So as we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to tell people where they can find you and your work. If they’d like to engage you for speaking or purchase your book or anything like that.
00:40:21:20 – 00:40:23:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Where can people find you?
00:40:23:10 – 00:40:50:26
Floyd Godfrey
Yeah, they, you can go to my website, Floyd godfrey.com and all the links are there if you want to find the work book, it’s there. There’s actually a discount link if you go to the website too little cheaper. There’s a section there if you, if you would like me to come and speak, you can fill out a request form, and for all the workshops and different things happening resources page, I put myself out there.
00:40:50:26 – 00:41:08:21
Floyd Godfrey
I try and do things to help people, the public, you know, I we have programs we’ll put on in the churches. So if people are wanting to donate to help with some of those things, we have a nonprofit that they can find on the resources page, they can donate to help as we distribute books and materials and provide workshops for people too.
00:41:08:21 – 00:41:12:25
Floyd Godfrey
So it’s all there. Floyd godfrey.com okay.
00:41:12:25 – 00:41:32:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That’s great. Oh, and one last question. What advice do you have for family or friends? Of people who are either struggling with the same sex attraction or who have embraced a some kind of LGBT identity? What advice do you have for the parents and friends and family?
00:41:32:20 – 00:42:04:07
Floyd Godfrey
Love, love, you have to keep the porch light on. People have to know you love them. If you feel strongly that they’re leading a path that’s unhealthy, we’re going to lead them into trouble. If they don’t feel like they can come home, what have you gained? It won’t at all. The preaching, all of the morality driven discussions will never be as powerful as love.
00:42:04:09 – 00:42:29:18
Floyd Godfrey
I remember in the early days of my work, I had a young man in his early 20s and probably 6 or 7 months into therapy, says Floyd. He says this is too hard. I just can’t do this. I want to kill myself. And he ended up going into the gay lifestyle. We communicated later and and I thought to myself, you know, he’s doing better now than he was before.
00:42:29:20 – 00:42:54:25
Floyd Godfrey
So rather than judge and criticize and wag my finger at him, I thought, well, at least he didn’t kill himself. Like, So in a sense of love and compassion, we want to love everyone. I think families, priests, clergy, friends just love people. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with the choices they’re making. But love them.
00:42:54:27 – 00:42:58:05
Floyd Godfrey
Show them love.
00:42:58:08 – 00:43:15:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, that’s what I hear from the, survivors themselves to the people who’ve made the journey, who’ve been in the been in the LGBT world and have journeyed away from it. And I ask them this question, what do people do that was helpful to you? That’s always the answer. That’s always what I hear back from my mom loved me.
00:43:15:16 – 00:43:25:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
She didn’t compromise her. Her beliefs and her values, and she never lied to me. But I always knew she loved me.
00:43:25:03 – 00:43:25:23
Floyd Godfrey
Yeah.
00:43:25:25 – 00:43:26:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So yeah.
00:43:26:20 – 00:43:28:04
Floyd Godfrey
Yeah, absolutely. Well.
00:43:28:06 – 00:43:47:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Doctor Floyd Godfrey, this has been a very, engaging conversation, a very interesting, wide ranging conversation. I’ve learned a lot, and I’m sure our followers are going to learn a lot, and many people are going to be blessed by what you’ve had to say here. So I want to thank you so much for being my guest on today’s episode of The Doctor J show.
00:43:47:10 – 00:43:50:20
Floyd Godfrey
Thank you so much. Can I say one thing in parting?
00:43:50:22 – 00:43:52:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, please. By all means.
00:43:52:16 – 00:44:17:26
Floyd Godfrey
If you are struggling, whether it’s unwanted same sex attractions, or you’re addicted to pornography or you’ve been unfaithful to your wife, or you’re a victim of sexual abuse, or you’re just simply confused about your gender or your sexuality, there is always hope. Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. He, he, he can raise you. He can help you. He can.
00:44:17:26 – 00:44:31:04
Floyd Godfrey
You can find healing. There is always hope. So if you’re struggling, don’t despair. Pray. Stay close to God. As for guidance and know that there’s always hope.
00:44:31:06 – 00:44:34:29
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That’s a beautiful place to end. Thank you so much, Doctor Floyd Godfrey.
00:44:35:01 – 00:44:50:27
Floyd Godfrey
Thank you.
👉 Watch the full uncensored video on Rumble or on Locals
Know someone who needs to hear this? Share this post. The truth heals.
Have a question or a comment? Leave it in the comments, and we’ll get back to you!
Subscribe to our YouTube playlist: @RuthInstitute
Follow us on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/theruthinstitute
https://www.facebook.com/TheRuthInstitute
https://theruthinstitute.locals.com/newsfeed
Press:
NC Register: https://www.ncregister.com/author/jennifer-roback-morse
Catholic Answers: https://www.catholic.com/profile/jennifer-roback-morse
The Stream: https://stream.org/author/jennifer-roback-morse/
Crisis Magazine: https://crisismagazine.com/author/jennifer-roeback-morse
Father Sullins’ Reports on Clergy Sexual Abuse: https://ruthinstitute.org/resource-centers/father-sullins-research/
Buy Dr. Morse’s Books:
The Sexual State: https://ruthinstitute.org/product/the-sexual-state-2/
Love and Economics: https://ruthinstitute.org/product/love-and-economics-it-takes-a-family-to-raise-a-village/
Smart Sex: https://ruthinstitute.org/product/smart-sex-finding-life-long-love-in-a-hook-up-world/
101 Tips for a Happier Marriage: https://ruthinstitute.org/product/101-tips-for-a-happier-marriage/
101 Tips for Marrying the Right Person: https://ruthinstitute.org/product/101-tips-for-marrying-the-right-person/
Listen to our podcast:
Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ruth-institute-podcast/id309797947
Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/1t7mWLRHjrCqNjsbH7zXv1
Subscribe to our newsletter to get this amazing report: Refute the Top 5 Gay Myths https://ruthinstitute.org/refute-the-top-five-myths/
Get the full interview by joining us for exclusive, uncensored content on Locals: https://theruthinstitute.locals.com/support
About the Ruth Institute
The Ruth Institute is a global non-profit organization, leading an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love.
Jennifer Roback Morse has a Ph.D. in economics and has taught at Yale and George Mason University. She is the author of The Sexual State and Love and Economics – It Takes a Family to Raise a Village.
To get more information or schedule an interview with Dr. Morse, contact media@ruthinstitute.org.
Refute the top 5 Gay Myths With Our Ebook & Get Our Newsletter
Join us on Locals for exclusive content*!
*Censorship free!
Get all of our video content on Rumble*
*Also censorship free
