Nirva and Raven | The Dr. J Show
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse speaks with Raven Jard Castañeda and Nirva dela Cruz, two young Catholic leaders from the Philippines who helped pioneer the Humilitas March—a public act of reparation and devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. What began in 2024 as a small prayer gathering in Davao has grown into a nationwide movement offering a faithful alternative to Pride marches. Raven and Nirva share how the marches unite clergy, youth groups, and Catholic organizations in joyful witness, public prayer, and Eucharistic devotion. They discuss the symbolism of holding the march in historic places like EDSA, the powerful conversions it has inspired—including former Pride marchers turning to Christ—and how the Sacred Heart devotion speaks to today’s culture of confusion and despair.
Raven Jard N. Castañeda is a Catholic apologist, lay catechist, and medical student dedicated to proclaiming the love and kingship of Christ through devotion to the Sacred Heart. A summa cum laude graduate of Ateneo de Davao University in Medical Biology and now a second-year student at Davao Medical School Foundation, he continues forming young Catholics in truth, humility, and devotion. In 2024, he pioneered the HUMILITAS March, a movement of young faithful united in public witness and reparation to the Sacred Heart, and founded the Association of Catholic Apologists – Knights of Saint Justin Martyr, which hosts conferences, apologetics training, and catechetical events. With experience in writing, public speaking, and debate, he defends the faith against rising wokeism in Catholic universities, most recently presenting on Truth, Academic Freedom, and Catholic Education at a 2024 philosophy conference. His deepest desire is to lead souls back to the beauty of the Catholic faith and the burning love of the Heart of Jesus.
Link to Raven’s website:
Humilitas FB page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61569082642573
Personal Blog (Simply Human): https://rjncastaneda.substack.com/
Nirva’s conversion through the Catholic charismatic movement led her to missionary work in Indonesia and East Timor before serving with the Episcopal Commission on Youth and later as associate editor of CBCP News, where she covered World Youth Days and the 2015 Synod of the Family. A former pro-life radio host, she became the first Filipino fellow of the Center for Asia Leadership in 2018, studying leadership and design thinking in Kuala Lumpur. She later served as communications officer for the Arnold Janssen Kalinga Foundation, documenting extra-judicial killings and advancing care for the homeless. An active Singles for Christ leader and international speaker, she has shared the faith across Asia and Europe. She loves the Traditional Latin Mass, baking, reading, and traveling, and most recently led Humilitas Metro Manila in June 2025 to promote devotion to the Sacred Heart.
Links:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1556996025004746 – Humilitas Metro Manila FB group
https://www.facebook.com/nirva.delacruz – Nirva Delacruz FB account (personal)
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Transcript
(Please note the transcript is auto-generated and likely contains errors)
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:29:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Everyone has heard of pride parades that have become common in the U.S. and throughout the Western world. But have you ever heard of the Humility March? Hi everyone! I’m Doctor Jennifer Roback Morris, founder and president of the Ruth Institute, an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus is a popular form of Catholic piety, and traditionally, the month of June has been dedicated to the Sacred Heart.
00:00:29:08 – 00:01:00:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Some enterprising Catholic young people in the Philippines put these two ideas together, and came up with the idea of a humility march in honor of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. During the month of June, Ravan Jarred Castaneda is a promoter of the Sacred Heart devotion in the Philippines. Immediately after graduating from university in June 2024, he pioneered the Humility March, which has since grown into a movement of young, faithful guided by devout and discerning clergy.
00:01:00:05 – 00:01:23:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Nerva dela Cruz is a former Lee youth missionary to East Timor and Indonesia. She’s currently the Secretary of Pro-Life Philippines. Recently, she was the main organizer and leader of the Humility 1st March in Metro Manila. Raven and Nerva are going to share with us how they developed the idea of the humility March and how the idea is catching on.
00:01:24:00 – 00:01:32:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I know you’re going to find this conversation inspiring and fascinating. Nerva and Raven, welcome to the Doctor Jay show.
00:01:33:00 – 00:01:36:08
Nirva
Thank you for having us in writing.
00:01:36:10 – 00:01:53:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. That’s great. That’s good. So I read about the humility march in the National Catholic Register. So why don’t we start by one of you telling us what is a humility? March of Nerva. Why don’t you just tell us what is the humility of March?
00:01:53:02 – 00:02:22:01
Nirva
So humility. She started. I think Raven is the better person who explained because he’s the founder. But basically it’s our alternative to, you know, what is happening in the world that a lot of people think about, you know, owning yourself and your body like it’s your own. And, you know, we see the pride marches. So we really thought about bringing people to the Sacred Heart, to our Lord.
00:02:22:06 – 00:02:40:20
Nirva
And I think Raven can share more about the inspiration about it. And really see that it really came, I think, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So, Raven, yes, it’s better that even believe this story because it’s it’s so good.
00:02:40:22 – 00:02:50:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. So tell us, when was the first humility us march and you were the founder, right. Raven. And then Neera came in later. Okay, okay. So tell us, Raven.
00:02:50:05 – 00:03:16:12
Raven
So it was in in June, I think it was June 20th 3 or 20 4 in 2024 that we first did the humility prayer. It was just a prayer gathering. Then, we had a small march, but there were only about 12 people joining and but but the remarkable thing is that the youngest, to ever join the, you missed this march is, three month old baby girl.
00:03:16:14 – 00:03:41:21
Raven
A three month old baby girl. Yeah. And she was there and, with her parents. Both of her parents. And so it was that was also very inspiring for us, because it was also in June that we have the, we have this we read from the from the text, this, beautiful gospel, passage about Saint John, she Saint John the Baptist and the baby Jesus.
00:03:42:03 – 00:04:10:16
Raven
So it was very interesting to have that as well. And of course, humility March. It’s not just, it’s not just an what people think is an anti pride thing or they pride march thing. It is also trying to promote life, trying to promote the faith, trying to promote piety, for instance. And so when, when we did that in 2024, I did not expect it to, to scale up, just a year after.
00:04:10:18 – 00:04:31:11
Raven
So it was just me and, some of my friends. And then there were some people who, who saw us, outside the San Pedro Cathedral and decided that they would join, after just, attending mass for, for that day. So when people went out of, of the cathedral, they saw us, and then, oops.
00:04:31:13 – 00:05:00:23
Raven
Maybe we can join, for, for a while. And then they stayed there until the evening. And it was all done while the pride march in this in the city of Davao was happening. So, you can see in some of the old, the not really old, but, but the previous, years photos that, behind the humility flag are pride flags because the pride flag, the pride march was happening back then, but we did not do anything like we did not say anything to them.
00:05:00:23 – 00:05:08:01
Raven
We did not, have placards saying you’re you’re going to burn in hell. No, it was not that. Yeah.
00:05:08:03 – 00:05:09:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. Because there were.
00:05:09:12 – 00:05:31:18
Raven
There were people of other faiths who did that. They were on the other side of the street shouting to them that they’re going to burn in hell. And, you know, we did not do that because, we think that, it’s not really a good way of evangelizing people. It’s not really a good way of putting Christ back in the street when when you’re just shouting at people and then you’re telling them they’re going to burn in hell.
00:05:31:19 – 00:05:56:00
Raven
But of course, there’s this concern. And so what we what we wanted to do is that we want to show them, what real, what real devotion looks like. And so we just, place an altar, a makeshift altar of the Sacred Heart. We had a statue, a Sacred Heart, of Christ the King, a statue, which we also use, this year.
00:05:56:02 – 00:06:36:00
Raven
And then we had the, the banners, and then we knelt down to pray the rosary prayer of Saint Michael. Devotional prayers like, acts of consecration and acts of reparation, like all of these prayers. So even, did the litany of the saints trying to invoke the saints to, to help us in this, in, in trying to, in trying to put price back in our streets because we think that that is really vital, especially now that, I think children are being saturated with, with this weird imagery of like, pornographic imagery in social media, for instance, we said, we’re going to counter that by bringing Christ, in our
00:06:36:00 – 00:06:44:10
Raven
streets, in our homes and in our hearts. So that’s really like the history of it. What happened last year in 2024.
00:06:44:12 – 00:06:49:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And that was what was the name of the city where where it was it’s Davao.
00:06:49:01 – 00:06:50:22
Raven
Davao city. Yeah.
00:06:51:00 – 00:06:58:16
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Davao city okay. And so this year, where was the march held this year? Was it more than one place this year?
00:06:58:18 – 00:07:27:05
Raven
Yeah. Yes. It’s thanks to, nearby for responding to be, it’s like an invitation. We wanted to invite people to be, devoted to to the Sacred Heart enough to bring him back to the streets again and back in our homes. And it was actually Nerva who who tried to coordinate in Metro Manila. So this year we had to mark, to humiliate this March 1st in Davao and one in Metro Manila.
00:07:27:05 – 00:07:34:07
Raven
And perhaps Nerva can share, the beautiful stories that happened in Metro Manila this year.
00:07:34:09 – 00:07:37:14
Nirva
So this was in image that we were sorry.
00:07:37:14 – 00:08:03:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. The image that I have of Metro Manila is John Paul, the second visiting in Manila. It was like, I don’t know, a million people or something. I mean, it was it was crazy big. The number of people who came out to see John Paul. Right. So there you have your piety in the street that way. And so but you didn’t have a million people that but, not yet, but but it’s not.
00:08:03:08 – 00:08:04:13
Nirva
Exactly.
00:08:04:15 – 00:08:21:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Lead. Not yet. Not. Yeah. That’s the spirit. Sorry. Never tell us about it. I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I just I couldn’t resist, you know, I have this memory. Yeah, a very powerful memory of just, you know, just in Detroit. That was like. Anyway. Go ahead. Sorry.
00:08:21:13 – 00:08:49:17
Nirva
So for humanity’s Metro Manila, it was really something that came because of the simulators in Denver. So we were really inspired to close what was going with what was going on in Davao. And if, you know, there Davao is the city of resident therapy. I don’t know if you know, that he rings a bell, but he’s really kind of famous for maybe the wrong reasons.
00:08:49:17 – 00:09:33:00
Nirva
And I don’t know anything. It’s very symbolic that it started there. And it’s humility as as Robin said, a march for life, you know, a march for the things that maybe society is forgetting about. So when we started this in Metro Manila, we also wanted to choose an iconic place. So we had it in the edition. So if you go back to Philippine Philippine history, this is where like the first bloodless revolution in the 1980s, you know, when there were a lot of, you know, like despots in power in Asia, you know, in Korea, Aquino and the Marcos regime, this is like the center of where, everything happened that people came in prayer to
00:09:33:00 – 00:09:59:14
Nirva
overthrow a very totalitarian government. So I don’t know, maybe it really came together because we looked at several places, but this is the place that, you know, finally accepted humiliate us. And it’s a first time for us people didn’t know us, the priest didn’t know us. And it’s like trying to really start from scratch. And everything just fell into place like we had maybe close to 200 people.
00:09:59:16 – 00:10:28:01
Nirva
Mostly all the seats were filled inside the church. It’s a it’s a bit small, but actually the weather was kind of bad during those days, so I feel like a lot of people didn’t go because of that. But Doctor Jay and Raven, Raven knows this story. There was, a young girl who attended the pride march the previous year, saying, I know she doesn’t mind being mentioned and she joined the human at this March this year.
00:10:28:01 – 00:10:53:16
Nirva
So. And also with that came the her conversion story of, you know, being lost and finally coming to the Catholic Church, the faith. And yeah, I also was wondering if you could guest here maybe in the in your future shows, but her story is really inspiring, and I think it’s one of the things that really makes this really powerful and really something that the church needs right now.
00:10:53:16 – 00:11:00:05
Nirva
We need stories of people who have their lives changed. And I think one other.
00:11:00:05 – 00:11:06:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I’ll just tell you, yeah, let me tell you about pronounced her name for me again. Zero is that you? Say her.
00:11:06:04 – 00:11:08:06
Nirva
Name. Siya. There.
00:11:08:08 – 00:11:31:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Zaire. Really? Okay. She wrote to us. Yes. Yes, she wrote to us. Yes. And she wrote her conversion story for us. So by the time this show is broadcast, or her conversion story will be available for people to read, it’s on the Ruth Institute website. Oh, and it was quite a story, too, I tell you. You know, we we usually tell people, you know, 500 words or 700 words or something.
00:11:31:22 – 00:11:51:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
She needed more than that, I’m telling you. And and it and it was a beautiful story you can tell. She’s been through a lot and she’s come a long way. And she’s a beautiful soul, you know? So so that’s cool. And and she enjoyed. We found her through you guys. Somehow one of you guys introduced her to me.
00:11:51:07 – 00:12:09:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Or maybe it was. Maybe it was Jaguar. Maybe. But yes. Anyway, we found her as well. And, you know, if that happens to you every year, if that kind of thing happens every year, it’s going to be amazing, you know? And it will I mean, I think, I think I think you’re right that it’s it’s exactly what it’s all about.
00:12:09:17 – 00:12:32:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But anyway, you had something more that you wanted to say, oh, what? Actually, while I’ve stopped you. Oh, well, I do want to go back to the history of the Philippines, because I’m old enough that I remember these, this time when Ferdinand Marcos and Imelda. Is that right? Ferdinand and Imelda, Marcos, you know that when they were brought down and they were brought down, what I remember being told.
00:12:32:20 – 00:12:58:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And you go straight me out. If this isn’t true, is it? A lot of the Philippine people went out and they marched and they said the rosary and they banged pots, his hands, I mean, there was no violence. There was literally there was noise but no violence. And, you know, he left in disgrace or and they found all of her shoes, although this is kind of famous that she had this closet full of, you know, incredible number of shoes and stuff like that.
00:12:58:16 – 00:13:08:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so it’s even a joke in some places in the US, people will say, you have so many shoes, you’re like Imelda Marcos or something, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:13:08:05 – 00:13:10:21
Nirva
Like so that point.
00:13:10:23 – 00:13:26:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. Yeah, it was me. Me before there were memes, you know. So, so you held it. You made a point of holding it in the was like a special church or a plaza or something that you chose to have the march for that reason.
00:13:26:20 – 00:13:54:03
Nirva
It’s the National Shrine of Our Lady of Peace. So it was really there was no church there before. So it was really built because of that historic event. And I think that it’s really fitting because this is the new revolution. It’s a revolution of the of, you know, people really coming back to God. So yeah, this is what we need right now, not violence or, you know, really being like activists.
00:13:54:05 – 00:14:22:09
Nirva
So, you know, even in a, you know, we’re really familiar also with like the strong activist, I think subculture among young people. But I think that’s really giving way to the real revolutionary spirit, which is, you know, love for the faith, love for values, tradition for, you know, the things that really matter. Family. So yeah. So yeah, that’s the Philippines.
00:14:22:09 – 00:14:25:07
Nirva
Right? So maybe a bit of a snapshot.
00:14:25:09 – 00:14:26:00
Raven
I was standing.
00:14:26:00 – 00:14:46:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Us. Yeah. Well, I think I, I think that will be interesting to our, to our followers. We have followers all over the world. But of course most of them are in the US. And, I myself know quite a few Filipino people because I lived in California for many years. There’s a big Filipino community in California, so. So I know the vibe.
00:14:46:17 – 00:15:10:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You could say the Philippine vibe. It’s just. Yeah, someone’s always smiling at you. You know how our Lord says wherever to 2 or 2 or more gathered in my name, there am I. No, no. Wherever there are two or more, someone’s laughing. In the Philippines, that’s what it is. Somebody’s smiling, somebody’s laughing. There’s always something going on like that, you know that.
00:15:10:20 – 00:15:21:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That’s my vibe of the Philippine people. But anyway, was there something else that you wanted to add about? About the about your 1st March? Nerva.
00:15:21:12 – 00:15:46:12
Nirva
So I think another interesting, another interesting, interesting story was, you know, how we really did major coordinate Asian doctor ji with like, the LGUs, the barangays, which are like villages. We had to get so many permits just to get this thing going because it’s really like a a business district. And you don’t hold religious processions there. It’s like unheard of, basically.
00:15:46:12 – 00:16:07:22
Nirva
I mean, maybe it happens a few times, but it’s not something that you would really do in that area. So we had to basically talk to like four, you know, authorities. And they kept on, you know, pointing at like the, Metro Manila, like Development Authority, all the traffic enforcers, and you had to meet them. It’s like we knew them already.
00:16:07:22 – 00:16:32:06
Nirva
And it was really just a major part of our coordination. But the funny and, like, really touching thing was a lot of the traffic enforcers really got, like, interested in what we were doing. And, you know, they, they took pictures of us during the procession and one of them even joined their Facebook group. So I feel like, you know, it’s like they’re also searching for the feeds in there also.
00:16:32:08 – 00:16:56:09
Nirva
Yeah. So I have these are Catholics basically. We’re a majority Catholic country. So I really feel even people on the sidelines and, you know, they see that, there’s really something that is, you know, calling to them personally. And it’s not just work. And on the other hand, these are also people who when there’s a pride march, they will support it because it’s part of their job.
00:16:56:11 – 00:17:22:15
Nirva
But under but like personally they would go for, you know devotion to the Sacred Heart. So I think that’s one that really, inspired me and touched me that even people like, but they’re not really our target. I mean, this was really like a youth event, but even traffic enforcers, you know, really interested. And, you know, they were even messaging us after, you know, congratulations.
00:17:22:15 – 00:17:39:13
Nirva
And they, we felt like the witness of the event was really powerful and that there were reports that we could never really see the end of. So that’s it. Yeah. So if people, that topic enforcers, these are posts hitting them on that.
00:17:39:15 – 00:17:56:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. Yeah. Do you know, we’ve had that happen in public gatherings and things like that where we’ve had to have security come, you know, just because you have to have security all the time. And so we’ve had conferences and there’ll be two security guys sitting back there, and you have to have them, you know, you’re required to have them.
00:17:56:14 – 00:18:16:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And they’re listening, you know, and afterwards are telling us, oh, we really believe in what you’re talking about. We really agree with what you’re doing and, you know, all of that kind of thing. I think it’s a beautiful thing. And you’re right. It’s calling out to people somehow. What I’d like to do, though, if for for just a minute, is for each of you to tell us a little bit about your background.
00:18:16:17 – 00:18:28:01
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What’s your main occupation when you’re not organizing Sacred Heart marches? What is your main occupation? Raven, what are you what are you doing? Most of the time these days?
00:18:28:03 – 00:18:51:14
Raven
These days, studying. That’s, that’s I I’m a I’m still a student. I’m a medical student, second year medical student at, in a local medical school here in Davao. It’s called the MSV. So I have some of the books here. Those are medical books, but most of my books are not related to medicine because it’s so tiring to read medicine.
00:18:51:16 – 00:19:11:17
Raven
So. But but that’s my, that’s my ordinary. Like, that’s my state in life right now. I’m a medical student, and, you know, I should be studying more, but. But one priest, when when I was asking for permission to do the humanities march, I told him, father, I’m, he asked me what what I was doing that day.
00:19:11:18 – 00:19:31:10
Raven
I said, father, I still have to go to school because I have I have class later. And then he said, you’re a student. I told him, yes, father, I’m a medical student. And he asked, do you have time to prepare for this? Because he was concerned about, how we’re going to organize the the religious march if if, I, I’m very busy with, with school.
00:19:31:12 – 00:19:56:12
Raven
And then, I told him, father I’d go insane without the faith. And then he just nodded. And because that’s the reality, I’d go insane without the faith, without trying to promote it to other people because, as a as a young, young man back in high school, I’ve been, plunged into this, this whole catechesis thing.
00:19:56:14 – 00:20:16:14
Raven
I’ve been, teaching people about the faith since I was in, in, in eighth grade. And then I started doing apologetics when I was in ninth grade. And so, so it was really just trying to, to live my, my whole young years in, in trying to promote the faith to other people, just trying to be friends with them.
00:20:16:14 – 00:20:28:18
Raven
But but there were a lot of stories throughout those most years. But really my, my studies and my my promotion to faith go hand in hand. I can I can study if I don’t promote the faith as well.
00:20:28:19 – 00:20:49:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, yes. And and becoming a physician, of course, is a is very, very compatible with with the life of evangelization, you know, and obviously it’s a, an important and valuable vocation that you can use to sanctify the world around you. So that’s a beautiful thing, Nerva. What’s your main occupation?
00:20:49:12 – 00:21:16:09
Nirva
For me, I’m into communication. So I work with, like the nonprofit or like the outreach arm of my community, which is corpus for Christ, which is called, Cop Foundation, answering the cry of the poor. So I am part of, communications, marketing and events department, and that’s what I do basically. So it’s deal with like a faith based organization.
00:21:16:09 – 00:21:35:11
Nirva
I feel like this is really what I meant to do with my life. I mean, I tried to be more corporate, you know, like, stuff, but I feel like it’s not for me. So that’s what I do when I’m not, you know, organizing for the church. I’m still working for the city in a way.
00:21:35:12 – 00:21:36:16
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah, right. Right.
00:21:36:18 – 00:21:42:01
Nirva
That’s the job to get paid for what you want to do and what your plans. That’s the best.
00:21:42:01 – 00:21:49:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So yes, that’s right, that’s right. I know the couples for Christ. I’ve spoken at couples for Christ events in California.
00:21:49:06 – 00:21:52:00
Nirva
No, they’re very similar in California.
00:21:52:02 – 00:22:11:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah they are, yeah they are. It’s very it’s very beautiful. Warm to tomb. Right. Womb to tomb is what I remember it. Right. They have things all the little kids have. They and the and for the and for the widows and you know, for the young people. It was a singles for Christ, kids for Christ. Yeah.
00:22:11:15 – 00:22:15:00
Nirva
You know this the I know.
00:22:15:00 – 00:22:19:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah I’m telling, I’m telling you I’m a fucking groupie. But can I tell you a joke.
00:22:19:12 – 00:22:36:21
Raven
In, in in some places where, where, for instance, in back in my college, we have a youth for Christ group there. And then when people graduate, they joke about it. Oh, you’re now in the single For Christ or something like that, right? So they even joke about there’s no escaping.
00:22:36:23 – 00:22:37:19
Nirva
Yeah.
00:22:37:21 – 00:22:56:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. There’s no escaping. That’s right, that’s right. And if you and when you get married, you’re in couples for Christ and so on and so forth. But but it’s it’s important that there be something for every age group, you know, because each phase of life has different needs and you need other people of your who are in the same state of life.
00:22:56:11 – 00:23:20:16
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But but what I’ve noticed in, in those circles is that, yeah, the singles for Christ are over here, but they’re not all by themselves. There are other people of other ages around them, supporting them, pointing them in the right path, hanging out with them, you know, and it’s it’s integrated. It’s not all siloed, siloed by age group. That’s what I’ve noticed.
00:23:20:16 – 00:23:42:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But anyway, so I’m guessing that couples for Christ was part of the network of people and organizations that you reached out to to build up, but definitely tell us about. Yeah, tell us about some of the other organizations, that you reached out to to help you promote attendance at the at the humility House March.
00:23:42:22 – 00:24:08:02
Nirva
So we had several conveners for humility, Metro Manila and yeah, definitely used for guys and seeing singles for guys were there. So as you know, them there, Catholic, you know, wanted to Catholic community for, for the family. And then we also had Missionary families of Christ, which is also similar. Actually, they came from couples for Christ.
00:24:08:04 – 00:24:30:16
Nirva
So it’s a long story, but these are also people I know. They’re also my friends, and they’re very pro-life, very orthodox in their teachings. And yeah, they were very active. Like one of the more they took on a lot of responsibilities and humiliate us. We also had pro-life Philippines, which I’m also a board member of. I’m the secretary of Pro-Life Philippines now.
00:24:30:18 – 00:25:02:06
Nirva
We also had, oops, which is the University of the Philippines. Do the Catholic Action or even those that, the current president Christian. And so we had a lot of youth groups. She really targeted them. We also had, data channels that they’re shown us, they’re connected with, like connected with Catholic schools. Also there next to the insertion.
00:25:02:06 – 00:25:34:23
Nirva
That’s why we we also got to work a lot with them. And we had, collection. It’s, it’s based in one of the Catholic universities and they’re more into, like, education, writing essays about, you know, the faith, social comment theory, stuff like that. And, I might be forgetting some people, but there were there were a lot of Fatima schools, so the Fatima schools and universities attended by the very awesome father, Nick.
00:25:35:00 – 00:26:00:04
Nirva
Father, if you’re watching, he was really like the backbone of this event because, you know, it’s so hard to get priests on board if if you’re new. It’s like we had no time to, you know, really, you know, be acknowledged or recognized by the official bodies. But father Nick was a Sacred Heart. Nobody really marched with us, was there, promoting us on the side, you know, with type events in other groups.
00:26:00:10 – 00:26:15:18
Nirva
So he was. You mean, he’s a super major supporter of human rights. So the Fatima schools, he brought his students so they were really awesome. Did it stand up first? They were reporting live Facebook Live. It was so cool. And.
00:26:15:20 – 00:26:23:02
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, that is cool. That is cool. It was nice day schools, school students. What age are we talking about?
00:26:23:04 – 00:26:37:03
Nirva
These are college students, but I think they also had like senior high senior high schools to that. So teenagers not so sure about the maybe 17 something like that. And then you know.
00:26:37:05 – 00:26:46:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, the the photos that they showed in the register looked like it was a very youthful event. Is it is that correct? It was. Yeah. Okay. So there was a.
00:26:46:19 – 00:26:47:06
Nirva
In a way, the.
00:26:47:06 – 00:26:48:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Youth event.
00:26:49:01 – 00:27:10:22
Nirva
Yeah. That was intentional in a way. Also because you, we know that this is their, you know, the younger crowd, you know, the, you know, sexual confusion, kind of confusion about who they are. And, you know, in a way, we also wanted to show that, hey, there’s an alternative, you know, what you’re looking for. It’s in the Sacred Heart.
00:27:11:00 – 00:27:42:03
Nirva
So we really targeted to invite, you know, the youth groups, the youth ministries, and that’s why they really showed up. Also Our Lady of Victory Church, where I go to for the Latin Mass, they were there, full force, faithful of Sons of Holy Mary Immaculate Chapel, which also does the Latin Mass, very, very silent workers really did so much work for he made this Metro Manila so he might kill me if I forget some organization.
00:27:42:05 – 00:27:55:18
Nirva
Sorry, but the I think there were a lot more, maybe a few more that I’m forgetting. But yeah. Or even also can share. But you know, there are eggs that were part of it will never.
00:27:55:20 – 00:27:58:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Did you miss anyone? Ribbon.
00:27:58:11 – 00:28:19:05
Raven
In in humility Davao. There are also, I think about 15 groups who were present, but there were also some more who wanted to join. But, the the dates for them let us in in Davao City coincided with the National Youth Day. So some of the youth groups went to to Naga City. And so they weren’t able to join.
00:28:19:06 – 00:28:38:06
Raven
One of the example is the Filipino Chinese Catholic youth. They went to Naga. So so they weren’t able to join. But next year they’re going to join, I think most certainly they’re going to join next year. So, some organizations I think one of the more remarkable thing is we had representatives from the brothers of the Sacred Heart.
00:28:38:11 – 00:29:05:17
Raven
So that’s like a religious community of of, of Lee brothers who who promote the Sacred Heart here. They also have, they also one of them, also manages the, the local, like, university, Catholic university. That’s, I think it’s it’s run by the archdiocese. So they also have their students, also the, the Association of Catholic Apologies, Knights of Saint Justin Martyr, that’s the apologetics group.
00:29:05:18 – 00:29:27:12
Raven
That I found that when I was in, when I was 16. So my, my, my brothers in the, in the Association of Catholic Apologies also joined and of course, this is interesting because, the, the, the group that had the largest share in the population of, of those who March is, is a youth group.
00:29:27:12 – 00:29:51:04
Raven
It’s a youth apostolate, and it’s the Sacred Heart Parish Youth apostolate. And they had oh, yeah, they had like a lot of, of kids joining, like the youngest one from their group was, I think 12 year, no, seven years old, seven years old from their group. Yeah. And, these are women and, young women, men and women who joined the march.
00:29:51:06 – 00:30:12:10
Raven
Aside from from that, they also had the, the we also had the family and life apostolate of, of the different parishes, all services from different parishes as well. We also have represent the tives from the, what we call arch Confraternity of the Holy Face. And of course, Catholic Faith defenders. They’re a big group of, of apologetics.
00:30:12:10 – 00:30:38:12
Raven
I think they also joined in in Metro Manila. We also we also reach, like, from places outside Davao City, like, there’s this place called Basilan and, and some of them, went to Davao just to join, just to join the march. So that’s great. Yeah. There are also, Sacred Heart groups like the Alliance of the Two Hearts and then the apostleship.
00:30:38:13 – 00:30:58:15
Raven
These are like, what we call probably not the good term, but like, rival organizations trying to promote the the Sacred Heart devotion in Davao. They’ve been here for for such a long time already. So we also invited them, because what you want that you will let us. It’s not really like an an organization in itself.
00:30:58:15 – 00:31:25:21
Raven
Rather, it’s like trying to to to ask people, different organizations and communities to join together and march together as one. I think, yes. Conservatives of the Philippines also joined in in Davao, Davao region. And lastly, there were there were organizations from from the the Jesuit school where I’m from, the Ateneo de Davao University.
00:31:25:21 – 00:31:55:16
Raven
There were organizations that joined, from there, the Ateneo Catechetical Instructions League. So like the student catechists of Ateneo. And then there were also representatives from a, a much larger group, called the Ateneo religious organizations. So, I think that that’s really interesting because, in my experience back in, in college, I hear a lot of people, like, really tired of this sexual revolution thing.
00:31:55:18 – 00:31:58:06
Raven
Like, really? Yeah. Young.
00:31:58:09 – 00:31:59:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
People fed up.
00:31:59:15 – 00:32:21:18
Raven
Yeah. A lot of young men in my school are like, they’re just so fed up with this, really third wave feminism thing. The the woke ideology. Like, they’re trying to cancel these men like men or like they’re fine men and but but these people are, like, just so angry with men that they want to destroy everything related to men.
00:32:21:20 – 00:32:46:07
Raven
Like they want to destroy the self-esteem of men. They they want to cancel these people. Like, like for the little things. Yes. Or even like when they have religious sentiments like you’re not. There’s this whole culture. It’s it’s not like, there’s a law about it or, or an ordinance within the school, but there’s this culture of just trying to silence whatever religious conversation there is.
00:32:46:09 – 00:32:57:08
Raven
So although we have like inter-religious dialog, but but really on the ground, you’re not allowed to talk about the faith because it might, well, it might offend someone.
00:32:57:13 – 00:33:02:03
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It might offend somebody. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
00:33:02:03 – 00:33:13:01
Raven
This is the surprising thing, is that these people who are saying you might offend someone, these are the non-religious types. So the religious ones love talking about their faith. So regardless if you’re like, yeah.
00:33:13:06 – 00:33:13:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah.
00:33:13:16 – 00:33:14:21
Raven
Yeah. They love talking about.
00:33:14:21 – 00:33:39:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. And well, this, this kind of self-censorship. It sounds like you’ve, you’ve taken over all the bad things from the United States. I’m sorry that we’ve exported all these nasty things to you. But but I but I there are two things that I’d like to to draw out. One is this one point that you’re bringing up.
00:33:40:01 – 00:33:57:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What is the environment like? Is there is there a big pride movement within the Philippines or is it, is it what is it like? I don’t know how you can compare it with the U.S. I don’t know if you have a basis of comparison, but are there a lot of pride parades and things like that in the month of June?
00:33:57:19 – 00:34:01:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Just try to give us a sense of what that’s like for you guys.
00:34:01:09 – 00:34:27:19
Raven
There are a lot of pride marches in different cities because I think, it’s sort of like an unofficial requirement for these cities to, to organize Pride March, like the way that this, this pride ideology creeps into the institutions, into this, into the structures of the government and, and in universities, like, it really has its grip on those structures and institutions.
00:34:27:21 – 00:35:00:08
Raven
So they, they have this pressure. I don’t know if it’s because of foreign, like there’s money from outside in the Philippines supporting them, or it’s like the Filipinos trying to make themselves, trying to turn themselves into woke ideologues or whatnot. I don’t really know why they, they’re, they feel this pressure to organize these events and, but here in Davao, we have we have this our local government supports, and they even give money to them.
00:35:00:10 – 00:35:24:18
Raven
But every June they give, like, money to each, each, LGBT who, who’s registered in their system, something like that. And then those money are used for like buying pills or what? So I don’t, I don’t like what’s happening in my city, but but that’s the reality right now here, here in Davao City. And I think that’s not very different from other cities in Davao, like in Metro Manila.
00:35:24:18 – 00:35:34:23
Raven
They host huge pride marches. And, the sad thing is that even Catholic institutions, that’s that.
00:35:35:01 – 00:35:52:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. So yes. And we have we we have that as well over here. But but I want to tell you, I don’t know if you’re aware of this here in the United States this past year, the month of June was very tame. There was very little, pride activity. And part of it is because of Donald Trump. Yeah.
00:35:52:16 – 00:36:15:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
He’s made an announcement. He made an announcement. The federal government, the United States government is not going to observe Pride Month. You know, that’s that’s none of our business. You know, he didn’t forbid companies to do what they wanted, but the fact that the federal government said, no, we’re not going to do it anymore. It I think it just changed the whole landscape, about that.
00:36:15:09 – 00:36:31:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So it was very muted this year, you know, in comparison with past years, a few years ago, it was in your face everywhere. And, you know, and a lot of people get tired of it, you know, even people who want to fit in and everything and who want to go along to get along, it’s like, stop. You know, it’s just it’s just too much.
00:36:32:01 – 00:36:51:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So things are on the move a little bit here. And I hope it, it will, it will bleed over to you guys as well. And the other thing that Donald Trump did was he cut off the funding of USAID, which we found out was funding all kinds of crazy things that had nothing to do with helping poor people, you know?
00:36:51:20 – 00:37:14:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And, you know, I don’t have to explain it to you, but maybe some of our audience doesn’t understand, you know, under the guise of helping people in poor countries, we’ve been exporting a whole lot of other things, with strings attached and so on, you know, that or that promoting contraception as a condition of aid or, you know, promoting LGBT things as part of the aid package and so on and so forth.
00:37:14:22 – 00:37:41:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
But that’s a lot of that’s got away with the with the defunding of USAID. So that’s a positive thing. So you guys are coming into this, by by starting the humility March when you’ve started it, I think you have a good opportunity, you know, to really push things in the right direction. Now, the other question I’d like to ask you guys, if you don’t mind, we the Ruth Institute is an interfaith, coalition.
00:37:41:06 – 00:38:06:13
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So we have people across the religious spectrum. Not everybody knows what the Sacred Heart is all about. So would one of you. I think either of you could probably do this in your sleep, but could could you explain to our non-Catholic, viewers what is the Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion? What’s what is it all about? Is this just another Catholic idolater tree thing that you guys do you guys, like, have your statues or something?
00:38:06:15 – 00:38:11:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What is this? Explain it to us. You guys.
00:38:11:11 – 00:38:14:05
Raven
And do you want to start Nerva or.
00:38:14:07 – 00:38:37:10
Nirva
Okay, so this is the Sacred Heart devotion is really a very dear devotion to many Catholics. So it I think it really started with the apparitions of our Lord to Saint Margaret local in the 17th century. I’m not so.
00:38:37:10 – 00:38:41:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Sure, but that’s the 1600 and 16th century.
00:38:41:06 – 00:39:14:03
Nirva
Yes. So you know how the Catholic faith really evolves. It somehow doesn’t really give everything all at once, because I think that was one of the questions of Saint Margaret. Why wasn’t this given to us like in the Bible? Why is it specifically or like very obviously in Scripture, and you know, our Lord God, he has his own wisdom about when to really reveal or let parts of himself or aspects of himself be known by his people.
00:39:14:03 – 00:39:38:19
Nirva
So the Sacred Heart devotion came. You know, right at the time this was in France, during a time of also maybe I would see great political upheaval or leading to it. So the Sacred Heart devotion really showed the the human heart of our Lord that loves us. So he is God, but he’s also human, and he loves us with the human heart.
00:39:38:21 – 00:40:04:12
Nirva
So a heart that is, you can imagine a heart that is like more tender than all the hearts of all the mothers in the world. You know, that’s how our Lord loves us. And you know, from, you know, there were many heresies like Johnson ism. That is very, you know, I’m not sure if are listeners are familiar, but there was a time when people thought that, you know, salvation is just like for a very, very select few.
00:40:04:12 – 00:40:06:10
Nirva
It’s like, you know.
00:40:06:12 – 00:40:27:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Hey, thanks for watching. Since you’re a fan of the Ruth Institute, you should really sign up for our free newsletter. We’ll send you a free download of our report refuting the top five gay myths. It’s filled with our unique combination of personal stories and nerdy data. You can click on the footnotes and be taken directly to the references.
00:40:27:13 – 00:40:46:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It’s totally free, so sign up at the link below. Today, in the time of Janssen, ISM was a, it was kind of a Catholic thing that was influenced by Calvinism, I suppose you’d say. And the idea was it not very many people are saved. So tell us what the sacred Heart devotion had to do with that.
00:40:46:22 – 00:41:08:21
Raven
So it was, the secret to our devotion was, was revealed, revealed. Or our Lord gave the message to the Saint Margaret. Mary, around the time when Johnson Johnson nation was like, really influential at the time, I think, I read somewhere I think it was Father John Hardon and said, like, it was about 70% or so of France, where Johnson Johnson is like the bishops and priests were.
00:41:08:21 – 00:41:35:18
Raven
Johnson this and this, this belief of Johnson ism, which was influenced, by Protestantism or Calvinism, really tried to say, there are times when when if you’re really not perfect, if you’re not sure of your perfection, holiness, perfect holiness, you should not go to mass and receive communion. This is, because for them, that is not good.
00:41:35:18 – 00:41:57:02
Raven
And of course, as Catholics, we say, you need to confess your mortal sin before you go to communion. But the Catholic Church does not say you have to be perfect, but for them, you have to be like 100% holy and sure of it, that you’re holy before you can, like, receive communion and then before you can be sure of your salvation.
00:41:57:07 – 00:42:28:10
Raven
So it’s really this miss, this trust to the, the love of God, and also in the freedom of man to to respond to that love. And so here comes the Sacred Heart devotion in 1673, when Jesus revealed to to Saint Margaret, Mary this this devotion, he said, behold this heart which is so loved man, because at around the time people were no longer going to church, they were, they were no longer going to Eucharist for, for for communion.
00:42:28:16 – 00:42:51:11
Raven
They’re not going to mass because they’re for them. The Johnson, heresy taught them that they’re imperfect and should not receive communion. Yeah. Yeah. Even if they already confessed their sins. So. So it was really a bad time. Like the mass attendance dropped, like probably worse than it is right now in a lot of Western countries. So, I read somewhere that it’s probably worse than than the Western countries now.
00:42:51:16 – 00:43:10:22
Raven
So when the attendance dropped, of course, our Lord was there alone in the Tabernacle. And so, he couldn’t contain his love, his desire to to reach out to people, I mean, the whole of, of the Sacred Scripture was like a story of God reaching out to man and trying to bring him back, right, to bring them back with him.
00:43:11:00 – 00:43:33:03
Raven
And so this Johnson, this heresy, it was really pervasive before. And I think that, to try to connect it to, to the, to the human movement in the context of the day, I think that this Johnson is heresy, this idea that man is incapable of of responding freely to to this call of love by God, that’s repackaged right now.
00:43:33:05 – 00:44:02:00
Raven
And now we’re now we’re hearing a lot of people say that, you know, God is just out there. We can reach him, he can reach us, and so we can do whatever we want. And, we’re not able to respond any way to this call of love that for them does not even exist. And so it’s like the Johnson is, is, is just repackaged and and for them, I think this is a sign of the spirit really like in the whole in the universal church right now we’re, we’re we have this Jubilee of hope.
00:44:02:00 – 00:44:27:16
Raven
And I wrote an article about this that I see a lot of people despairing, young people despairing. And that’s why, a lot of our book shops, like, in Amazon, for example, a lot of the books that are best, best sellers are self-help books. And because that’s a sign of despair when people think that, right, they can no longer help themselves and they need books.
00:44:27:16 – 00:44:48:17
Raven
They need authors to teach them, to, to, to, to they need authors to, to teach them. So I guess it is the sacred art that gives us hope, really. In the words of Saint, in the words of Pope Francis, it’s really the Sacred Heart. And it’s really that which gives us hope, that it’s the hope that never disappoints.
00:44:48:19 – 00:45:10:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes. And and, the, very important connection here is that, first of all, we can’t save ourselves. And we should really have figured that out by now, because all of these ideological systems that we have come up with over the last century, it’s like not a single one has worked out. So we can’t save ourselves, but we can’t give up either.
00:45:10:15 – 00:45:31:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, the despair is a serious and the the whole gay ideology, if you if you if you look at the gay ideology as a kind of theology, they don’t acknowledge God particularly, but there’s a kind of implicit theology behind it. And sometimes you’ll hear people say, God made me gay, right? You’ll hear it. You’ll hear people talk like that.
00:45:31:20 – 00:45:51:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And the idea that, you’re born gay and you can’t change. Okay, to me, that is a kind of Calvinism, right? That’s a kind of predestination. This is who you are. This is your identity. There’s no there. You not. You might as well get used to it. You know, you might as well accept it because there’s no hope for you.
00:45:51:12 – 00:46:10:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And when you really think about it from that perspective, is Calvinism without grace? And the only thing that makes Calvinism even remotely bearable is the fact that grace is going to save you. I mean, that’s that’s, you know, how they how they figure it out. That’s how they make that work in their mind. Well, okay, so now we have Calvinism without Grace.
00:46:10:09 – 00:46:32:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, it’s no wonder people are struggling, right? It’s no wonder people are having a hard time. And your friend, who sent me her story that comes through in that story, you know, just how, how she was responding to the love of God that she. And until she knew that was there, she was really, really having a hard time.
00:46:32:12 – 00:46:54:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So I think this is this is very apt. I had not put together you unfamiliar with the Sacred Heart devotion, but I hadn’t really put together the the Chancellor’s side of it. You know that that this was our Lord’s intervention. Right? Okay. The, the, the world is creating problems and the churches there in the middle of the world going, what just happened?
00:46:54:09 – 00:47:15:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
What are we going to do? And Jesus comes up with the Sacred Heart or we have communism coming. He sent his mom to fount of all you know. I mean, yeah, we discover a new world. We discover a new world. And so he sends his mom to Guadalupe, you know, sends his mom to Mexico, you know? Okay.
00:47:15:22 – 00:47:18:23
Raven
Can I just say something related to that?
00:47:19:01 – 00:47:20:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, please.
00:47:21:00 – 00:47:45:10
Raven
Back in college, I think it was in 2022 or 2021, probably. We started, trying to promote the Marian devotion in our university. So it’s a Jesuit university. So supposedly, the Marian devotions should have been there already, but, right. It’s so happens the devotions were not there. So I have a friend who’s the president of the Ateneo Catechetical Instructions League at the time.
00:47:45:12 – 00:48:11:14
Raven
He is a Marian promoter here in the city. So he tried to promote it and then, we had, Marian exhibit, a very successful Marian exhibit, like 33 statues of Our Lady from different families and schools and and churches. And then he brought all of those statues in inside one hall in, in my university. And then what happened was, since it was very successful, I told him, you know what?
00:48:11:16 – 00:48:38:00
Raven
Since we’ve successfully brought back Mary into our in our school, into our university, you know, every everywhere Mary goes, he brings Jesus into into that place. And so I told him, let’s start. Let’s bring back the holy. Our devotion. And so we we asked. Yeah, we asked officers for permit. And then the offices were like, no, the Jesuits won’t allow that.
00:48:38:02 – 00:49:05:14
Raven
I said, I don’t think so. So after one Sunday mass, I was attending mass in our university. Sunday mass. Excuse me. Our chapel has a second floor. It’s a mezzanine. So the president of the university was staying there. And so after mass, I rushed up the doors to the mezzanine. And then I told him, father, I sent you an email about, like an hour ago.
00:49:05:16 – 00:49:26:10
Raven
We want to do a whole the the monthly holy hour devotion here in our chapel. And, you know, his response was like, and this was the same. The same priest was trying to promote it was trying to tolerate, if not support outright the the pride fest in our university. This is the same man, but I believe in the grace of office.
00:49:26:11 – 00:49:53:03
Raven
So so receive a lot of grace. So so when they do something surprising, surprisingly good. That’s because of the grace of God. So he told me I’m going to check it and then I’ll send your response. 15 minutes later, he sent he sent the response bell. All the offices. I approve this. So the offices? Yeah. And then we were, we were talking about the the holy hour devotion.
00:49:53:03 – 00:50:14:23
Raven
What how how to do with it, how to do do it and then how to market it to students. And then he told me, you know, what to even one of the most interesting thing is that the young people of today are so obsessed with love. But they don’t recognize it once they see the Blessed Sacrament, because they’re so.
00:50:15:01 – 00:50:38:18
Raven
And then he told me, maybe we need a sign of love and connect it to the the the holy hour devotion. And he told me, read the Sacred Heart devotion. He gave me books on the Sacred Heart. Devotion. It will be distributed to students. He brought like, a pile of of very short devotion to the sacred art books distributed to students who will do holy art.
00:50:38:20 – 00:51:07:06
Raven
And so we did that. We tried to all of the prayers in our holy are are Sacred Heart prayers, acts of reparation, consecration, the litany of the Sacred Heart. And the reason for that is this this priest who pointed me back to that devotion to the Sacred Heart, wanted to promote the the wanted us to promote the Blessed Sacrament in this in this context of the love of God, which other people call just seeing the white House.
00:51:07:06 – 00:51:38:06
Raven
They’re inside the the, inside the monstrance would not even recognize that. It’s about the love of God. So he said, you really have to work on on how you can communicate this to other people. And so that started the whole Sacred Heart devotion thing in our university. And right now, after I graduate, that there was another, another Jesuit priest, also a good Jesuit priest, who continued this work on trying to promote the Holy are so, there there were other other priests were like, let’s close it down.
00:51:38:10 – 00:51:58:19
Raven
Let’s shut it down, because it’s being filled with conservatives. Like conservatives are like the for them, for him, it’s like the biggest problem in the church right now. But but this other this other Jesuit priest told me, know you don’t listen to him. I’m the chaplain and I’m going to decide whatever is best for this chapel. And he continued, the holy devotion.
00:51:58:19 – 00:52:06:13
Raven
And and we see a rising trend of, of students going inside, even just spending 15 minutes.
00:52:06:15 – 00:52:07:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, yes.
00:52:07:10 – 00:52:11:23
Raven
Oh, the Blessed Sacrament. Yes. And then they go back to their their day.
00:52:12:01 – 00:52:12:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
To their.
00:52:12:08 – 00:52:31:21
Raven
Day have. Yeah. They have classes that the same hour. So, I think it’s very interesting that they, this same person is trying to do to, to tolerate or even support the, the pride fest. It’s also the same person who told me, you know, go to the Sacred Heart.
00:52:31:23 – 00:52:50:14
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I think that’s really interesting. And I keep, keep praying for this guy, you know, and keep keep the love of Christ focused on him because that because that is what everybody’s looking for. Everyone is looking for love. I mean, if that’s what this is. The priest who said that to you. But we’re looking in the wrong places.
00:52:50:16 – 00:53:15:11
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So I want to go back to Nerva and ask you. You. You mentioned the young lady who was at your, who was at the who militant march in, in the, in in Manila. Humanitas in Manila. It’s hard for me to say, the the young lady who had been in the, in the LGBT life who had who had had female lovers and so on and so forth.
00:53:15:17 – 00:53:24:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Were there other people that would fit that description? Who, who you became aware of at the, at the Who militant march.
00:53:24:19 – 00:53:52:08
Nirva
I met Ciro actually at committed this Metro Manila and she was with a friend, a gay friend. And from what I remember, he was also at a pride march. Both of them. I don’t know if they were together. I just don’t remember his name. But at least two of them, they were, you know, talking about being at the pride march, and the previous years or even just last year and this year coming to humiliate us.
00:53:52:08 – 00:54:22:17
Nirva
So I think, you know, humility is really just starting. And the word will spread, and even even after the event, you know, I really see the fruits of it, even in small ways. Like after I posted about it or I shared a post about the Sacred Heart, I received immediately a message from, you know, she’s not specifically I won’t I won’t say she’s LGBT, but a message from someone I met years ago and has never really talked to me.
00:54:22:17 – 00:54:43:17
Nirva
But she she told me something like, miss, but do you still have events like you had yesterday? Because I really feel like, you know, I’ve been trying to pray and but I can, I can hear God. Next time I’d like to attend as well. So I feel like it’s really touching hearts. And, you know, the Sacred Heart is for everyone.
00:54:43:17 – 00:55:04:12
Nirva
I mean, even if, you know, they feel like maybe they have everything in life or they’ve had it made, you know, just basically what the younger set think. You know, they have to do this, they have to achieve this. But it’ll really go back to our Lord. And, you know, you can have everything else, but there’s still this thing that’s missing.
00:55:04:12 – 00:55:24:02
Nirva
Because I know this this lady, she’s a very, you know, like an entrepreneur or very go getter kind of profile. But still, at the end of the day, you know, she will admit to herself that there’s something missing. And, you know, God is also calling her. So. Yeah. Thank you. Your question. Yeah, I think there’s there’s at least one more.
00:55:24:04 – 00:55:31:00
Nirva
A guy I would like to ask Irene as well call her girlfriend was. But I met two of them. We we we spoke.
00:55:31:02 – 00:55:52:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. The reason I wanted to bring that up is that here at the Ruth Institute, we have been interviewing a lot of people who have made the journey away from an LGBT identity. And we’re very careful not to not to call people gay. You’re a gay person. No, we don’t use that kind of language. You’re a person who experiences same sex attraction.
00:55:53:01 – 00:56:22:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You’re a person who identifies as gay. You know, something that’s more descriptive of what they’re really doing rather than assigning them a label as if that’s their identity. You know, we really want to move away from that. But but the reason I’m bringing bringing it up to you when I’ve done a whole series of interviews with people from different religious backgrounds who either were gay or transgender or, you know, I mean, some of these people have really been through the mill.
00:56:22:07 – 00:56:55:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And when they when they when Jesus gets a hold of them, you know, and starts work on them, you know, working with them and shaping them and reforming them, literally reforming them. These are beautiful souls. These are really beautiful souls because they’ve they’ve been through a lot, you know, and they’ve experienced some genuine repentance and growth, you know, and if you guys can become a focal point for those people, you know, where they can, the people who are struggling, the people who are looking for something.
00:56:55:17 – 00:57:18:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Right. If you can be the place where they come, that would be beautiful. That would be that would be really amazing. So, Sure. Yeah. In fact, that’s how we spent. That’s how we spent the month of June. We decided that we were not going to fight pride or resist pride or anything like that. We decided we were going to talk about the people who have left pride behind that that was kind of our thing, you know.
00:57:18:00 – 00:57:38:07
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so we gave them, you know, we basically interviewed people and let them tell their story because they don’t usually get to tell their story. The the people who are committed to the gay world say they don’t exist. Your lying. You’re really still gay. You weren’t really gay in the first place. You know, they dismissed. They dismissed the the possibility of conversion.
00:57:38:07 – 00:58:01:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, and that’s what tells you that it really is. Is it hurt a theological issue? Right. Because they have a theological commitment, which is that I can’t change this is this is this is my whole identity, you know, and and we have a better story than that. So you, I wanted to encourage you in that, in that regard, you know, those people are going to they’re going to appear on your doorstep.
00:58:01:22 – 00:58:10:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I have no doubt at all about it. Just from what the two of you were telling me. This is big. This could be really big. You guys, this is great.
00:58:10:17 – 00:58:35:18
Raven
Well, there were, when the NCR article came out, the National Catholic Register article came out, there were people who were like, criticizing us, like, they say that you, Miletus and March don’t go together. Because for them, when you say march, it’s really something about pride. Like. Yes. But for for them that that’s how they, they see it.
00:58:35:18 – 00:58:52:14
Raven
But for us, we think that it’s just trying to, you know, when, when Jesus was on the way to Calvary, he was already marching with the cross on his back. And that’s what the image that we’re trying to present, we’re walking with Christ on the way to Calvary. And sometimes that Calvary takes like a lifetime of of. So.
00:58:52:16 – 00:58:54:05
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, yes.
00:58:54:07 – 00:59:17:18
Raven
Yeah. This is a story here in double, doctor J this is a, a two women who are same sex attracted and they have this, that they have this, same sex relationship, but they went to the Miletus March. Yeah. They did not go to Pride March. They went to this march. The reason is these people are are, religious people.
00:59:17:18 – 00:59:53:03
Raven
They go to Sunday mass every single. They don’t miss a Sunday mass. And then, there was a time I was telling this to a friend yesterday. There was a time when, when we were talking about the faith. And then I told them, you should go to you should continue going to Sunday mass, but, just avoid the the whole, receiving the Holy Communion if you’re, if you’re still in the, in the relationship and, and doing, you know, the kinds of things that that people shouldn’t be, unmarried couples should not be doing, shouldn’t be doing married people should be doing that.
00:59:53:05 – 01:00:18:15
Raven
And so they don’t receive Holy Communion, but they go to mass because for them, it’s already a part of their identity that they’re they’re this they are this faithful who are worshiping God, but they’re still struggling with, with the same sex attraction. Yeah. Yeah. It was able to have one of, one of them, as far as I know, one of them have the rosary always in her pocket because I said.
01:00:18:17 – 01:00:19:15
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well.
01:00:19:17 – 01:00:39:12
Raven
My, my, my mentality was that, if I can have Our Lady be with her 24 over seven, she’s going to pull her to the Catholic faith. Yeah. Fully. She’s going to make her a saint. Yeah, but wouldn’t that takes a long time. And this is my. Yes. This is the reason why, I was telling this a friend.
01:00:39:12 – 01:01:00:03
Raven
I was telling him, we have to be very patient with these people. We can’t be very condemning. Like you’re going to burn in hell. Like what? Other religious, saints tell them. So I was telling him, we just have to. To make the faith, like, we just have to put it in front of them so that they become a track.
01:01:00:03 – 01:01:23:13
Raven
Right? You know, we don’t have to market it, as much because the faith in itself is already very beautiful, very attractive. People just naturally go towards it. And so, but but even people from other religious faiths like that. Can I read a message from from, a Protestant who who joined them? Humiliated. March.
01:01:23:15 – 01:01:37:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, sure. Yeah. I was going to ask you if non-Catholics came, but it’s so like, this is this is a pretty heavy duty Catholic thing. So if you had some non-Catholic serve, that’s great. So, yeah, I’d like to hear what your non-Catholic friends and yes, please go ahead. So here here’s go.
01:01:37:09 – 01:02:00:16
Raven
So this is a, a friend of mine who was a conservative, but he’s a Protestant. He’s a Seventh-Day Adventist. And then, oh, we were talking about this whole pride issue, how we’re getting so fed up with, with, with, woke ideology, getting pushed down on, on kids and, and then he, he, he told me, you know what?
01:02:00:18 – 01:02:19:01
Raven
I think they just need? Christ. He told me, this this Protestant guy. And then, I was telling him, you know what? I’m promoting this Sacred Heart devotion, and I was able to discuss a lot about, what the Sacred Heart devotion is. And said, what you’re doing is interesting. I want to join the union at this March.
01:02:19:01 – 01:02:38:14
Raven
I said, are you sure? Or, Because, here in the Philippines, Protestants don’t don’t really go to, to Catholic events, partly because their parents would be mad about them joining. But they said, you know, my mom won’t mind. So I invited him. And then he came. He was the first one to arrive at the parish.
01:02:38:16 – 01:02:47:18
Raven
Actually, the new millennium. Great. Was. Yeah, was supposed to start by 1 p.m.. It was there already by 11 a.m.. I wasn’t even there.
01:02:47:20 – 01:02:48:13
Nirva
Oh.
01:02:48:15 – 01:03:17:20
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Well, you know, I think this is a beautiful thing. One of the things that I’ve noticed here in the U.S. and in all of the, you know, kind of public work that I’ve done in defending the traditional definition of marriage, the Catholic definition, the Christian definition of marriage. People of all faiths understand that there’s a problem here, you know, so the seven day Adventist, the the Baptists, you know, the Mormons, they all understand there’s a problem here.
01:03:17:20 – 01:03:37:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And so what’s happening is that our Lord is pushing us together, right? And and overcoming the divisions because we’re working together side by side on something that we all know is really important. And whatever else may come up, we know that our Heavenly Father is glad that we’re working together. You know, because he doesn’t want us fighting. Right.
01:03:37:11 – 01:03:55:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, so into whatever extent that we can, in good conscience work together, that then then that. That’s all good and beautiful. You know? So, so that’s really amazing. And the other thing I wanted to mention, I have the seventh ad for Adventist Friend over here who is an ex-gay, you know, and who has that as his part of his story.
01:03:55:17 – 01:04:13:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
And that’s how I know him. And I’ve interviewed him, and he’s one of these beautiful souls. What I’ve noticed, you guys, is that Jesus can save anybody he wants. I mean, he’s saving people. You don’t have to be a Catholic for him to get in there and grab you. And. And he’s working on people all across the board.
01:04:14:04 – 01:04:37:08
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
I’ve seen people that took them 15 years to really get rid of the whole same sex attraction. You know, they struggled with it. They turned their life over to Christ. And it took ten years, 11 years, 15 years to to really get it out. And then I’ve seen people five days. It’s gone in five days. You know, it’s like, okay, our Lord could do what he wants.
01:04:37:08 – 01:04:49:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You know, it’s like, yeah, so we have to be ready for these surprises. We can’t pre-judge anybody. I guess that’s where I’m going with it, you know? Okay, so you have your non-Catholic buddies there. Don’t prejudge anything.
01:04:49:12 – 01:05:07:16
Raven
Allow me to read what he said. This is what the what the. Oh, please. Yes, yes, yes. A message he sent me after the humane letters march. He said I joined the U. Miletus march. Despite coming from a different faith background because I saw the sincerity of the movement, I genuinely felt I was walking with God’s people.
01:05:07:18 – 01:05:21:10
Raven
There was nothing material to gain, only heartfelt humility, pure praise and deep love for God. It was a blessing to walk alongside them, and I would gladly do it again next year. That’s what they said.
01:05:21:12 – 01:05:25:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
That’s beautiful. That’s that’s really beautiful.
01:05:25:11 – 01:05:44:06
Raven
Yeah, I was really surprised when he sent me that message because, you know, it’s not always that people from other faiths would, would join the Catholic events. And then he was even willing to convert to the, the we call it the, the, the like the sort of table where, where the Sacred Heart statue was. Oh.
01:05:44:08 – 01:05:45:10
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Oh, okay. Yeah.
01:05:45:14 – 01:05:52:12
Raven
Okay. And then he asked me, is it okay if I’m a Protestant? And then I, I carry that one. I said, yes.
01:05:52:14 – 01:05:52:16
Nirva
You.
01:05:52:21 – 01:06:07:00
Raven
It was even willing to carry it because. Yeah. I was, I was hesitating a bit because, you know, with the whole, graven images thing that, that Protestants usually believe Catholics do, but but he was very open about it.
01:06:07:01 – 01:06:09:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
He was open to it. Right, right, right.
01:06:09:12 – 01:06:20:18
Raven
Yeah. He was open to it. Open to the to the grace, perhaps. And for him to say that he wants to is willing to march with with us again next year. It’s very inspiring. It motivated.
01:06:21:00 – 01:06:21:06
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Me.
01:06:21:06 – 01:06:25:18
Raven
To, to do a better job organizing the email next year.
01:06:25:20 – 01:06:45:04
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that brings me you were coming to the end of our time together. I’m interested to know if you guys could tell us, I want each of you to try to answer this question. What can other Ruth Institute followers around the world? What can we do to help you next year? I don’t I don’t yeah, I, I really want to know.
01:06:45:06 – 01:06:57:22
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
We’ll we’ll put this out and people could learn about it and everything. But you know, when people watch this whenever, whenever it is that it comes out, how can they help you? What can they do? Nerva, how can we help you in.
01:06:58:00 – 01:07:17:11
Nirva
Their own humility? In their country, in their city? You know, we I really think that, you know, it will take a life of its own because it’s usually from the Holy Spirit. And it’s not just, you know, Raven and I or this is just a Filipino thing. The Sacred Heart is everyone’s, you know, he he belongs to everyone.
01:07:17:11 – 01:07:36:18
Nirva
And I think, you know, like in Bulacan, I’m not sure when they did it, but they had their own little humility. March it. I think it was just in a in a small parish. But, you know, they did it on their own. And without this, you know, telling them or encouraging them. So I think the spirit was really moved.
01:07:36:18 – 01:07:57:18
Nirva
And if you know, your viewers will see this, I hope they can find, you know, the calling and the courage to really respond, because it just takes a few, you know, like Raven, he started it with 12, you know, like the apostles. So even just a few people, and it doesn’t have to be as big as, you know, like 100 people all at once.
01:07:57:20 – 01:08:24:20
Nirva
Just make it a public show, like an act of public reverence to the Sacred Heart. Because, you know, we don’t know, you know, what kind of, impact that witness will do to people watching, the people who will hear about it. And as long as you really have love for for our Lord, you can do this. So, you know, just bring your friends, bring us Sacred Heart image March, prayed the rosary or sing hymns or whatever.
01:08:24:20 – 01:08:54:13
Nirva
You know, just get the permits like we did. So it won’t be, you know, getting, into any trouble and see how our Lord will work and touch lives. So. Yeah, yeah. Do it. Do it in your city, in your country. And yeah, you’ll see how many people are really maybe just waiting for something like this. So as I always tell people, you know, there’s really just a vacuum, you know, and the pride marches, they just feel that vacuum.
01:08:54:15 – 01:09:15:02
Nirva
So actually it’s on us, you know, the onus is on us to actually put ourselves out there and bring our Lord there because people are just waiting, you know, it’s already inside of their hearts to to come to our Lord. So we just need to kind of like set it up for them to show up. So that’s it.
01:09:15:04 – 01:09:33:09
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well, you know, I think the answer that you gave me is itself a model of humility to us in the sense that usually when I ask people, how can people help you? They give out their website. They say, send money, buy my book or whatever, you know, and you didn’t do that. You should go start your own. You know, you don’t have to do anything for me.
01:09:33:09 – 01:09:50:23
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
You go, you know, you do. You do this and, and and it’ll be great if you do that. That will help us. We’ll all be well. I’ll be helping each other from across the. From across the country. Raven, what do you say? What would you say to. To the Ruth, to followers about how they can be part of this?
01:09:51:01 – 01:10:18:09
Raven
You really started in the chapel in in our knees, adoring the Blessed Sacrament. So, the best way, I think, to help you let us and the people around it is to pray to the, the, the Blessed Sacrament to help us and to help other communities start their own march as well. Because you know what? What the culture.
01:10:18:12 – 01:10:44:09
Raven
There’s this whole culture of hyper individualism right now. The people are now being an art, are unable to find communities. I think it’s also one of the thing that makes pride marches attractive to young people, because they’re a whole community. And we can find that here in our city right now in terms of like, in terms of being together, fighting for one goal.
01:10:44:11 – 01:11:07:19
Raven
And there was this one priest who who I tell a lot of stories because a lot of things happen, but there’s this one priest approach and shared the latest march to and then he said, you know what? We can we keep on that saying that, these people right now are becoming simply activists. Like the activism side is the, the worst thing in the, in the youth of today.
01:11:07:21 – 01:11:31:16
Raven
But he told me, I don’t think so. He said, I think it’s just like the human longing to fight for something, to fight for something honorable. And because they don’t see see other people fight for something honorable, they just fight for anything they can. They they think, it’s good. And so that’s why they turn into activists.
01:11:31:18 – 01:11:59:18
Raven
And he said, you know, if you can turn their zeal and pointed towards God, it’s going to be very powerful. Told me that. And so he said, maybe a militant movement can, can feel that in when, when, when you militants tries to, to promote the Sacred Heart, tries to, to, to, fight against our own vices, not not saying that you’re a sinner, you’re a sinner.
01:11:59:18 – 01:12:18:13
Raven
And, you know, our T-shirt in union. Let us, in humility. Well, it says there at the back of our shirt, I am a sinner because it’s the whole you, me. This movement is trying to fight against our own vices, our own faults. And so maybe the best thing, the best way to to help, aside from, of course.
01:12:18:13 – 01:12:39:15
Raven
What? Never said that you should you should organize your own humility as Mark. It’s it’s really it’s really good. It’s really great to have a community and march together for the faith. But aside from that, try to try to increase the intensity of your spiritual life. Go to Blessed Sacrament Chapel weekly, go to mass, go to confession.
01:12:39:17 – 01:12:59:12
Raven
And and just accept this reality that that you’re human and you’re you’re going to make a lot of faults. You’re going to commit a lot of sins. But that’s the beauty of God’s love. You can always go back to him. And it’s actually, I think for me, it’s the best sign of humility that you’re able to say, I was wrong.
01:12:59:13 – 01:13:25:08
Raven
I am a sinner, but I am also that a child of God. And I’m not going to, I’m not going to downplay or I’m not going to, a basis. Mercy is love. Enough for me to say that I, I’m, there’s no hope for me because love of God is is is really powerful that he can turn a sinner into a saint and hopefully the people in humility.
01:13:25:10 – 01:13:31:02
Raven
That’s what I pray every day, that the people in humility will grow in holiness each day.
01:13:31:04 – 01:13:32:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yes, yes, yes.
01:13:32:18 – 01:13:36:00
Raven
I think that’s that’s the best way you can.
01:13:36:02 – 01:13:37:19
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s also.
01:13:37:19 – 01:14:00:08
Raven
Very instructive that sanity is also very attractive. And when people see it, when people see a community, whole people gathering and try to be saints together, try to be saints and have public devotions to the Sacred Heart, to Christ the King, to Our Lady, people are going to see it and they’re going to be inspired.
01:14:00:10 – 01:14:25:10
Raven
One thing that the one who, who, who documents our event can our my friend and our, shadow. It was also his photo. So that reached a nerve. The, in social media and inspired people in Metro Manila. He told me that during while we were marching, he was looking at us, but it was also looking at other people on the street, like watching us.
01:14:25:12 – 01:14:32:16
Raven
Some of them took their phones and took, took their phones out and, captured photos, took pictures.
01:14:33:05 – 01:15:02:06
Raven
Yeah. And they took pictures. But a lot of them did the sign of the cross. Some had their, their children kneel before as the, as the Sacred Heart statue was passing before them. Some of them were praying. So there’s, there’s this what Nerva said earlier, there’s this, ripple effect. And we never know whose lives, are public witness of Jesus Christ touch us.
01:15:02:08 – 01:15:17:13
Raven
So I think, humility is going to inspire a lot more people if if we’re going to stay within the, if we’re going to stay in the state of grace and try to build up a solid spiritual life.
01:15:17:15 – 01:15:32:00
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Well, that is a beautiful place for us to end our conversation. I want to thank you guys so very, very much. This has been very interesting. I’m sure a lot of our people are going to be fascinated by it and inspired. I think a lot of people are going to be inspired by what you young people have done.
01:15:32:06 – 01:15:41:17
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
So I want to thank you, Nerva, and thank you, Rayven, so very much for being my guest on today’s episode of The Doctor J. Show.
01:15:41:19 – 01:15:44:15
Nirva
Thank you so much for having us so much.
01:15:44:17 – 01:16:06:18
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Hey, a quick shout out to our sponsor, Real Estate for life.org. This is the most pro-life, pro-family way to buy or sell a home. Go to real Estate for life.org. You’ll be connected with a Christian realtor. Part of their commission will go to the pro-family charity of your choice, the Roots Institute. For example, and it costs you nothing at all.
01:16:06:20 – 01:16:32:12
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
It’s the most pro-life, pro-family way to buy or sell a home. Go to real estate for life.org.
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About the Ruth Institute
The Ruth Institute is a global non-profit organization, leading an international interfaith coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love.
Jennifer Roback Morse has a Ph.D. in economics and has taught at Yale and George Mason University. She is the author of The Sexual State and Love and Economics – It Takes a Family to Raise a Village.
To get more information or schedule an interview with Dr. Morse, contact media@ruthinstitute.org.
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